Forged Alliance Forever

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2019-07-04T20:34:12+02:00

T2 arty is 2000 mass. I think it’s fair that once you spend 10k mass on 5 t2 artys, it will be harder for t3 mobile arty to break it. Also you can have like 3 t3 mobile arty for every t2 they have.

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 04 Jul 2019, 20:34

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2019-07-04T12:58:16+02:00

Yes, i already made a mod with different front/rear/side damages.

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 04 Jul 2019, 12:58

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2019-07-04T02:29:40+02:00

T3 Arty is almost useless vs firebases with any t2 Arty. My thought is: they get frontal facing armor shield, just like real artillery. Which would reduce damage by 75% from 120 degrees frontal. They would gain a lot of sticking power but flanking them would still be an easy kill. Random distribution would mean they still lose to in range t2 Arty as half the shots would hit behind.

Is there any code on game to determine what direction a unit is hit from?

Statistics: Posted by OmegaMan — 04 Jul 2019, 02:29

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2019-01-21T19:40:46+02:00

Change fire beetles into anti-shield mercies.

EZ

Statistics: Posted by LabPunk — 21 Jan 2019, 19:40

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2019-01-18T19:54:39+02:00

Sorry for the necromancy. Didn't realize how old this thread was.

ThomasHiatt wrote:
I do think it would make sense for cybran to have a shield disruptor rather than aeon.

Super this. Or at least SOME useful tools for disrupting fire bases. Once upon a time someone said something like "Cybran MML are good at busting firebases" But if you actually get into a bunker busting firefight in any way, you're just wasting mass. Between T2 shields, T2 arty, and T2 TMD you can never build enough cybran MML, shields and stealth to protect them (#T1 scout spam) so it ends up just being a big mass sink in most cases right up until the UEF guy you're fighting gets Ravs, or assuming you're fighting someone else they just build some T3 land bots and zerg you.

I have experimented with using Mantis + Fire Beetle + Medusa spam on low-mid fortified UEF bases, and it can work if you can get the fire beetles in to EMP PD and take out shields. But its risky and only some of the time dislodges the opponent. You're just as likely to feed mass as you are to disable the fire base.

biass wrote:
Yeah, why argue with the dude who says vipers get countered by tmd?

TMD alone won't do it. But you'd be a fool to be using TMD alone to stop MML spam. You use T2 arty for that. Leaving alone how great Aeon TMD is, the Cybran MML is still not a good T2 combat unit so once you build a bunch you're left with a mass sink, and it still does not outplay a good couple of UEF shields, a hand full of UEF TMD and a few T2 arty to fire back.

The Cybran are both bad at busting bunkers and at building them. Which is I do not think is good balance. There are parts of this game where you have to confront your enemy head on, and right now there isn't a good way to do that for Cybran unless you pull back, tech for Bricks, and ram their fortification that way.

Also, since I'm sure someone at some point is going to mention it given how the last few pages went lets cover two things:

1. I don't need to have a big score E-Peen to have some idea about balance. I've been playing this game for years and lets be fair here you don't need to be the best player in the game to understand how it is balanced and why.
2. The idea that we shouldn't look at all at fire bases because they aren't common in 1v1s is stupid. Team games are a big part of Soup Commander and fire bases show up consistently in them so we should figure out how we want to manage their presence in those games.

Statistics: Posted by Deisu — 18 Jan 2019, 19:54

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-18T05:30:34+02:00

Yeah, why argue with the dude who says vipers get countered by tmd? I dont know, maybe because everyone is really only posting here for the sake of comedy. Soon we will learn that t2 pd creep is just really too good against mantis and we are literally back a few years with lichking.

If you gave a single shit about your idea op you would have made that mod by now, it's literally a copy paste job and a few line changes as far as I'm aware, instead you continually put yourself up to be mocked because of your blatant misunderstanding of rts know how and then soon the balance councillor (who you're supposed to be petitioning in this forum) will just remove you entirely because your posts are just that bad. Yes I am aware it sucks to be told that you don't know anything and you cannot comprehend why, but plenty of info about basic rts theory exists on the internet, I suggest you start looking for it. It will help your gameplay too, and everyone likes their pointy wointys

The next forum post I want to see you make is the declaration that you made the mod and you petitioned some of your gap buddies to help test it out and you have replays, not a carcass of a 1v1 scenario or even worse, trying to tell half of the ladder team what the current pool is at the moment.

Statistics: Posted by biass — 18 Nov 2018, 05:30

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-17T21:46:06+02:00

Why has this discussion not ended with the term MML? Morax mentioned Cybran MML once and this is still going. Any fire base dies to it. Any firebase with enough T2 artillery to make things difficult is so far beyond the T2 stage that T2 units no longer matter.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 17 Nov 2018, 21:46

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-17T21:01:36+02:00

Don't believe me? Here's a link to the current ladder pool.

ok lets go through them
1st: all 5x5 dont count. only on nooblevel there are ever firebase wars
badlands:3 chokepoints you nearly never see firebases in 1v1
Arctic Refuge 190812983 chokepoints
Dry Canyon v3 effectively 5x5
Fields of Isis: you rarely see firebases since ppl rarely bother to build enough units to make it worth it
Four-Leaf Clover here firebases can legot happen but are kinda weak since you can stil get everywhere wht air
High Noon the is not even land build here
Last Oasis never seen firebases there since gameplay doesnt evolve enough around land plus need tech in expansions etc
Red Rocks not a firebasemap
Regor VI Highlands sometimes there is one in mid one of the maps where firebases are possible and actually appear (though not often)
Saltrock Colony 3-5 pathes
Stella Maris WM 1v1: airmap
Twin Rivers: possible firebase map, but usually only decent if youre getting rolled by an enemy all in push
White Fire v2 navymap
Abhor ~4 pathes
Diversity many pathes etc usually no firebases but since you have insane mass there could in theory go firebaseheavy
Z-D Rasty Lite too many pathes
20x20 are not firebasemaps anyway

so where exactly are all the "firebasemaps" in ladder? and where are the decent level (1800+) games where T2 pushes etc get constantly crushed by firebases and cyb needs an anti firebase tool?

Statistics: Posted by Turinturambar — 17 Nov 2018, 21:01

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-17T18:29:21+02:00

Louvegarde wrote:
5. He queued up a firebases along the routes to his base you might take. He is spending more and has more production capability at firebase on the shortest most direct route. He also moved all of his T1 land to help support it.

I am not so sure about this scenario, to be honest. "Queuing up firebases along all the routes I might take" ? That's a damn huge lot of firebases.

In the scenario I was using, it was 2. I didn't specify a map, but there are lots of maps where this kind of thing could happen.

If its wonder open, sure. Too many routes to block off land with firebases. 10x10 or larger open maps can't be choked off with a firebase or two, but most maps aren't like that.

Don't believe me? Here's a link to the current ladder pool.

/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16382

Go through it, look at the maps, and tell me how many of those maps could have land cut off with fewer than three firebases. Its a fair proportion of them. Craig Dunes, Dry Canyon, Vale of Isis, Fields of Isis. Its probably about half of non-naval maps.

And of course there's a much higher proportion in the popular team maps that get played constantly. You know, the maps where like 50% of all faf games are played that we've arbitrarily decided don't matter for balance cause that totally makes sense.

Statistics: Posted by moses_the_red — 17 Nov 2018, 18:29

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-17T11:16:50+02:00

5. He queued up a firebases along the routes to his base you might take. He is spending more and has more production capability at firebase on the shortest most direct route. He also moved all of his T1 land to help support it.

I am not so sure about this scenario, to be honest. "Queuing up firebases along all the routes I might take" ? That's a damn huge lot of firebases.

Statistics: Posted by Louvegarde — 17 Nov 2018, 11:16

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-17T04:38:07+02:00

No, im not interested in joining one of "your games" https://imgur.com/a/mHaibDG

It's already stated that i'm more a 1v1 kinda guy and as it stands you have close to 1000 rating to climb up at the moment. Oh and i typically only hand out training games to people i have deemed worth the time to invest training into, so no, sorry. Luckily i don't need to prove you are bad because both trueskill and the replay vault exists.

With that out of the way, how is your mod: "awesome new unit for the faction i main" coming along?

Statistics: Posted by biass — 17 Nov 2018, 04:38

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-17T00:26:46+02:00

No no no no no, It's clear that it will be settled on Finns.

Statistics: Posted by Endranii — 17 Nov 2018, 00:26

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-16T23:29:44+02:00

Sounds fair; he could join one of your games, and he can ask you to search ladder for him (barring that he's nearly 1k above you in ladder so it might take a while for you to work your way up to be in slapping range of each other), I'm sure that'll settle things nicely.

Statistics: Posted by Ze Dogfather — 16 Nov 2018, 23:29

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-16T20:55:10+02:00

Bias, if you think I'm a terrible player, feel free to join one of my games and prove it.

Statistics: Posted by moses_the_red — 16 Nov 2018, 20:55

Re: T2 shield disruptors for Cybran, UEF and Seraphim.

2018-11-16T06:54:40+02:00

moses_the_red wrote:
A more reasonable analysis would be:

You start building pillars. Enemy sees you're building pillars and just ecos.

8 minutes pass, you have 50 pillars, your opponent spent half the 10k mass you spent on pillars on eco and now has a significant eco lead on you

300 rating ladder is one hell of a place

go and make a mod for it instead of wasting not only yours but everyone else time here: http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/Unit_Creation
come ask for help on your endeavours on the new channels in the maps and mods server because i sunk more time into it then you did thinking about your balance posts

Statistics: Posted by biass — 16 Nov 2018, 06:54