Forged Alliance Forever

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-19T08:00:27+02:00

well it had the right title...

Statistics: Posted by Spy_Emanciator — 19 Feb 2020, 08:00

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-19T07:42:20+02:00

randall172 wrote:
moses_the_red wrote: gap games

i stopped reading there.

Did you really just TL;DR a 2 year old OP from before Scathis was reworked?

Statistics: Posted by RedX — 19 Feb 2020, 07:42

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-15T03:09:46+02:00

moses_the_red wrote:
gap games

i stopped reading there.

Statistics: Posted by randall172 — 15 Feb 2020, 03:09

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-13T08:26:30+02:00

Plasma good idea with shield rebuilds i haven't seen much of that.

No input on the removal of the scathes' old role? its just more of the same with less accuracy.

Statistics: Posted by Spy_Emanciator — 13 Feb 2020, 08:26

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-11T21:45:45+02:00

The Salvation is the worst T4 of all.

it has way lower BT, it's pretty strong in combination to paragon. If for some reason, you have lot of e and mass (reclaim), i guess you can even try to rush it (and not go for para) to have a game ender way faster than your opponents.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 11 Feb 2020, 21:45

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-11T21:40:18+02:00

Spy_Emanciator wrote:
T3:
Emissary: 73.2k
Duke: 72k
Disruptor: 69.6k
Hovatham: 70.8k

T4:
Scathis: 220k mass (random and listless)
Mavor: 224k mass (The best one)
Salvation: 202k mass (Close to Mavor but slightly less effective until shields are broken)
Yolana: 187k mass (gets countered easily by massing smd's)

So what have we learned? for 4k more mass you can have a weapons system that actually shoots it's target. Also compare the effectiveness per mass cost. Disruptor's (when placed in range) are the cheapest and most effective rate of fire, all you have to do is share tech to make up for weak cybran shields and your getting the best bang for the buck. T4's operate at further ranges than the t3's, so there is that factor. It just sad to people put precious game-ender mass into scathis right now.

Comon game ender strategy: kill t3/t4 artillery, kill smd's, nuke opponent. No way your going to kill a heavily shielded position with scathis without 3-4 of them at the same effectiveness as 2 mavors or salvations. It just not fair per mass.

Revert changes.

Yeah so... The Salvation is not close to the mavor. When shields do go down the salvation still barely tickles whatever is underneath (the shield generators can be killed once the shield dies, but that is it, and overlapping shields drop way less than with the other arties). The Salvation is the worst T4 of all.

As long as the YOLO has many SMDs to deal with, it can just target whatever is not properly protected. The larger the map the more options the YOLO has. And it is good area denial for any army that tries to attack, so ground attacks are now out of the question.

The Scathis can't kill properly overlapping shields, that's true, but it can take out so much that is not properly shielded. Doesn't make it random and listless, just means you have to pick your targets right. Whittle down the other team to smaller pockets of bases that they can't get out of. Yes I know that the smaller pockets are exactly where the most valuable targets are (i.e. enemy game ender).

As for the mavor, I'm not sure it is the best actually. You can micro against the mavor. You only need good reaction time, proper build power and you can build shields in between the mavor shells. Simply self-destruct the shield, build a new one on the wreck. The result is that you hold in your small concentrated base (exactly the kind of thing the mavor is designed to break, contrary to the scathis). BTW: this is why Aeon shields are the worst against the mavor not the best. Their self-destruct is so long that you don't have the time for this trick. With Seraphim, the shields are so strong that overlapping shields can often hold against a mavor long enough that you can build new shields where an old one collapsed. Aeon are not.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 11 Feb 2020, 21:40

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-11T09:38:02+02:00

I think it was used in actual war to take more advantage of surprise element.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_On_Target
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery#MRSI

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 11 Feb 2020, 09:38

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-11T06:21:18+02:00

Mach that is just retarded

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 11 Feb 2020, 06:21

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-11T00:44:24+02:00

Strogo wrote:
speed2 wrote:One thing I absolutely hate about the new Scathis is how fast the turrets turn right now. Its very unrealistic for such a massive thing to accelerate and decelerate to fast.

Yeah I know. I had same thoughts when I was fixing rotation for new firing pattern. We can increase delay between shots, but everything that is faster than default shots looks weird tbh Also we kinda want to make shells land simultaneously, so idk how to achieve that without this super-fast rotation.

what if you fire each shot at slightly slower velocity than previous, to have them land at same time (because each new projectile is going to have less flight time, exactly the amount that previous shot flew before current shot fired, resulting in all of them landing at same time), after last one (of "clip") resetting speeds so it starts over, you can correct the distance of projectiles by changing vertical part of angle of each shot too (which resets like speed after one "clip"), changing angles is gonna effect flight time as well tho

this would then mean scathis can shoot at same fire rate as before (constant firing), but its shots are gonna cycle thru these speeds and arrive in bursts like they do now

didnt completely check math of this but it seems like it can work

Statistics: Posted by Mach — 11 Feb 2020, 00:44

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-11T00:25:23+02:00

T3:
Emissary: 73.2k
Duke: 72k
Disruptor: 69.6k
Hovatham: 70.8k

T4:
Scathis: 220k mass (random and listless)
Mavor: 224k mass (The best one)
Salvation: 202k mass (Close to Mavor but slightly less effective until shields are broken)
Yolana: 187k mass (gets countered easily by massing smd's)

So what have we learned? for 4k more mass you can have a weapons system that actually shoots it's target. Also compare the effectiveness per mass cost. Disruptor's (when placed in range) are the cheapest and most effective rate of fire, all you have to do is share tech to make up for weak cybran shields and your getting the best bang for the buck. T4's operate at further ranges than the t3's, so there is that factor. It just sad to people put precious game-ender mass into scathis right now.

Comon game ender strategy: kill t3/t4 artillery, kill smd's, nuke opponent. No way your going to kill a heavily shielded position with scathis without 3-4 of them at the same effectiveness as 2 mavors or salvations. It just not fair per mass.

Revert changes.

Statistics: Posted by Spy_Emanciator — 11 Feb 2020, 00:25

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-10T20:44:47+02:00

Farmsletje wrote:
i still like how 50% of ppl call a scathis useless garbage and the other 50% call it OP

People are just complaining when they lose to it/lose because they built it instead of mavor. No one calling it useless or OP has real understanding of it.

Statistics: Posted by UnorthodoxBox — 10 Feb 2020, 20:44

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-10T15:27:19+02:00

It's almost as if it is a game ender that is built before the opposing team's game ender, or after.

Statistics: Posted by Plasma_Wolf — 10 Feb 2020, 15:27

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-10T15:10:38+02:00

i still like how 50% of ppl call a scathis useless garbage and the other 50% call it OP

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 10 Feb 2020, 15:10

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-10T14:47:10+02:00

speed2 wrote:
One thing I absolutely hate about the new Scathis is how fast the turrets turn right now. Its very unrealistic for such a massive thing to accelerate and decelerate to fast.

Yeah I know. I had same thoughts when I was fixing rotation for new firing pattern. We can increase delay between shots, but everything that is faster than default shots looks weird tbh Also we kinda want to make shells land simultaneously, so idk how to achieve that without this super-fast rotation.

Speaking about Scathis randomness, I would reduce current spread radius from 80 to 60 or smth (random balance idea, don't take it too seriously : )

Statistics: Posted by Strogo — 10 Feb 2020, 14:47

Re: We need to talk about the Scathis.

2020-02-10T08:45:11+02:00

We need to talk about gap.

Statistics: Posted by Little Miss Murder — 10 Feb 2020, 08:45