Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2017-03-18T04:44:49+02:00 /feed.php?f=67&t=14193 2017-03-18T04:44:49+02:00 2017-03-18T04:44:49+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145464#p145464 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
Hildegard wrote:
A fellow of no great mark nor likelihood, and never seen but in the heat on Seton's shores (please don't scourge me for this sin).

On Aeolus, I heard you call my logic asisine, as [t3] gunships can be produced earlier than ASF's. So it is without a doubt, yet tell me, would you not consider it asisine that entire teams never lift a finger if their opponent air began building t3 gunships with one or two t2 pgens at minute 6 or 7? Did not a scout fly past? Was there no marker laid: "Something is sketchy over here"? Isn't it also a risky move by this rash air? How should he get away with producing units which in mass demand a third of [t3] pgens cost, and in energy a rounded 73% of the same? What's the cost of two or three dozen interceptors to this, evenly split by a team, to shelter their friends from this threat - or have I been deceived? Was the pristine state of teamgames a set of simultaneous ladder games played side by side? On my part I thought the higher the quality of a game, the more each and every player perceived themselves as parts of some greater whole, a team, which by joining small streams of forces can overcome obstacles like a frothing river. Because here exactly is the perspective I can't grasp: why talk of the strength of costly units that are used against you exclusively by players who were not your direct foes, yet in the same breath forget the friends who could have mirrored this act on your foe, or aided you in your defense against this assault.


What a beautifully written post. Fucking brilliant. Props dude :)

OT - I thought I'd settled this with Morax on Slack TBH. Every example I've seen or heard of T3 Gunships being an issue has turned out to be bad scouting and response, or 2v1. No, player A engaged in a landspam with player B cannot be expected to defend themselves when player C comes in with 3 Broadswords. You shouldn't be able to. You should expect to be forced to fall back until player D can do the thing with the 3600 mass they did NOT spend on broadswords. 1v1, if they held their own on the ground AND got T3 Gunships, they just completely outplayed you. If you're rolling them, and they surprise you with T3 Gunships with your pants down, they went for a very risky play, you didn't scout, and you deserve to die. Not much more to go on here...

Also, "Air" slot being a thing is appalling map design.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 18 Mar 2017, 04:44


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2017-03-18T04:09:31+02:00 2017-03-18T04:09:31+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145461#p145461 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
Swol wrote:
Anyone that thinks T3 gunships can be produced quicker than ASFs should be voided from any balance discussions since they can display a basic understanding of game mechanics imo....


OK come play something other than setons.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 18 Mar 2017, 04:09


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2017-03-18T04:28:59+02:00 2017-03-18T03:32:24+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145458#p145458 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]> Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 18 Mar 2017, 03:32


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2017-03-17T22:27:34+02:00 2017-03-17T22:27:34+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145425#p145425 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
Even though you ask for forgiveness for your Setons player status, I do challenge you to play among us and put this to us.

Not one person who has stated what you did has done it as it is all theory and you remove things like stress and lame as shit gameplay where you have to be above-and-beyond protective of an ACU at 10 mins+.

Yes, you have to be mindful of an ACU at all times as "assassination" is the ubiquitous game mode, but it's ten-fold with t3 to the point where it is stupid to try anything aggressive.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 17 Mar 2017, 22:27


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2017-03-17T21:50:35+02:00 2017-03-17T21:50:35+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145413#p145413 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
On Aeolus, I heard you call my logic asisine, as [t3] gunships can be produced earlier than ASF's. So it is without a doubt, yet tell me, would you not consider it asisine that entire teams never lift a finger if their opponent air began building t3 gunships with one or two t2 pgens at minute 6 or 7? Did not a scout fly past? Was there no marker laid: "Something is sketchy over here"? Isn't it also a risky move by this rash air? How should he get away with producing units which in mass demand a third of [t3] pgens cost, and in energy a rounded 73% of the same? What's the cost of two or three dozen interceptors to this, evenly split by a team, to shelter their friends from this threat - or have I been deceived? Was the pristine state of teamgames a set of simultaneous ladder games played side by side? On my part I thought the higher the quality of a game, the more each and every player perceived themselves as parts of some greater whole, a team, which by joining small streams of forces can overcome obstacles like a frothing river. Because here exactly is the perspective I can't grasp: why talk of the strength of costly units that are used against you exclusively by players who were not your direct foes, yet in the same breath forget the friends who could have mirrored this act on your foe, or aided you in your defense against this assault.

Statistics: Posted by Hildegard — 17 Mar 2017, 21:50


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2017-03-17T18:06:10+02:00 2017-03-17T18:06:10+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145378#p145378 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]> Statistics: Posted by Morax — 17 Mar 2017, 18:06


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2017-03-16T22:46:45+02:00 2017-03-16T22:46:45+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145287#p145287 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
If the air is reasonably balanced, for one side building [t3] gunships the cost is enough to mark that team a loss if they don't richly prosper from that early firing power. Defied with flak or with superior numbers of interceptors their cost becomes high, and higher still the better the opposing air. And if the airs are evenly matched, wouldn't investing such resources to some early gunships mean they were by strong measures forced to be made, in sacrificial intents of saving a crumbling side for at least a chance to later win the day, since for their price the foe, unless their state was the same, must have made ASF and thus win the air.

High is their cost and reasonably modest is the power of their arms. The problem is not the unit, I deem, but people avoiding their rating-brought responsibility to even out these imbalances through other sections of the map, even if it means investing precious early resources into perhaps an air-directed drop, or manufacturing a less tank-dense army. Remembering the greater cause (as befits team games) should you easier digest the shame of leaving you weaker foe alive for longer than your high skills boast should otherwise be possible.

Statistics: Posted by Hildegard — 16 Mar 2017, 22:46


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2017-03-16T18:10:05+02:00 2017-03-16T18:10:05+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145257#p145257 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]> Statistics: Posted by Morax — 16 Mar 2017, 18:10


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2017-03-16T17:12:40+02:00 2017-03-16T17:12:40+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145256#p145256 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]> Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 16 Mar 2017, 17:12


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2017-03-16T17:06:23+02:00 2017-03-16T17:06:23+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145255#p145255 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]> Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 16 Mar 2017, 17:06


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2017-03-16T16:49:14+02:00 2017-03-16T16:49:14+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145253#p145253 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
And the syrtis were ftx kill me is a good example of the feeling you can have. You go full t1 spam gun + nano, you roll on your opponent at min 9 (sry koopa) deny mercy deny t2 gunship with t1 flak because you just get t2 land fact and t2 flak on their way a little late cause you put all your ressource in spam and acu upgrade. Then you have t3 gunship on min 10 on your head, after you've done the job perfectly with not any way to survive to that.

So for me the first part of the game is how i wanna see fa played. Using acu push, it's the funnier part of the game. Then i get ejected out of this fun game without anyway to counter that.
Or yes there is a way i see, go t2 acu pd shield and turtle

Statistics: Posted by jackherer — 16 Mar 2017, 16:49


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2017-03-16T16:39:08+02:00 2017-03-16T16:39:08+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145248#p145248 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
Morax wrote:
Don't know jack, I think I have to simply agree with galactic here that the culture of an accepted "specialization" spot makes team games suck for me.


I don't know for certain, but in my opinion you can avoid much of the problems you suffer if you pick team maps without a "safe" rear spot. For example, I don't believe specialisation could occur very easily on a map like the dark heart.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 16 Mar 2017, 16:39


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2017-03-16T16:32:40+02:00 2017-03-16T16:32:40+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145247#p145247 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
jackherer wrote:
I still think thats its way harder to deal with 6 t3 gunship than with 18 corsair or the same mass amount of t2 gunship or any t2 bomber.


Couldn't you say exactly the same with, for example, percy vs pillars or mongoose for the purpose of acu sniping? The difference is the additional tech cost, and in the case of air especially, energy infrastructure.

Statistics: Posted by galacticfear — 16 Mar 2017, 16:32


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2017-03-16T16:31:18+02:00 2017-03-16T16:31:18+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145246#p145246 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]>
I'll play a few team games going forward with strict crowd but sick of the stacks and drunk mix (Smurf Hunter-like people) that just make it a flip of the coin as to whether or not fun, calculated strategy will take place.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 16 Mar 2017, 16:31


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2017-03-16T16:27:52+02:00 2017-03-16T16:27:52+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=14193&p=145245#p145245 <![CDATA[Re: T3 Gunships]]> So i have concerns, about those gunship, philip made a post, let's just talk about it like adult, no need to trash anyone for having different opinion.
So my concerns are that if a land or air player rush t3 gunship it makes very hard to keep pushing land with acu after min 10.
Now t3 air (asf strat) is a bit delayed depending of the map around 12-15 min (not talking about seton).
I hear the thing about mass value of the gunship. I still think thats its way harder to deal with 6 t3 gunship than with 18 corsair or the same mass amount of t2 gunship or any t2 bomber. You can't dodge gunship, you can't build shield after the attack begin, even with decent bp around your acu. They have such hp that i think its takes way longer to kill them with t1 t2 air than the same mass value in t2 bomber (not sure about that it's jsut a feeling). You dont have omni so dont know where they will come and you often see them comming at the last moment.
And for the argument that scout would deny them, ok, but 90% of teamgame are lost because of lack of scouting, and that wont change, tho for most of the thing you have miss by a poor scouting, you can still tryhard like oc spider dodge strat and try to get under a shield... I dont see anything to try when you just got 6 gunship comming on you.

I will keep trying t3 gunship around min 10, and time will tell, if there is some effective counter that does not include stop using your acu after min 10, if it get abuse and teamgame get boring because you cant use your acu after min 10 i'm sure balance team will make something about it

Statistics: Posted by jackherer — 16 Mar 2017, 16:27


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