Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T23:47:47+02:00

I suggest to change that cloak to stealth for the scout. It matches better with the cybran faction 'theme'.
It would also become more useful and interesting for those early scout (+ tank/lab) encounters.

Statistics: Posted by KeyBlue — 09 Oct 2016, 23:47

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T19:57:05+02:00

also T1 land scout for cybran has cloack; and T1 scout for sera has stealth + cloack

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 09 Oct 2016, 19:57

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T18:42:24+02:00

No doubts that all those units are fine atm the suggestion was to increase faction diversity not to change balance a lot. Thats all more or less toys i posted up there no serious balance changes .....

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 09 Oct 2016, 18:42

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T16:08:54+02:00

I think radars are fine as they are, in terms of efficiency and HP. Just the operational cost of non-Cybran omnis should be reduced from 2k to 1k so they can have Omnis earlier to spot stealth units.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 09 Oct 2016, 16:08

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T11:13:13+02:00

Ok i updated it. So far nobody told that something could be op or the idea is very bad. Except the first answer from shroomy he does not want to change the t1 t2 radars. But i think those changes are no big deal as well.

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Cybran personal stealth for stat radar would allow them to hide it somewhere but once a scout was flying over it is detected and will not disappear again.

UEF more hp that it can survite 1 t1 bomber run is as well not really that intense. The biggest difference would be my proposal for surviving a t2 bomber run for t2 radar here since it would be really hard to destroy a t2 uef radar then. Mabye it should be less hp so it can survive several t1 bomber runs but not so much hp.

Sera. Intel stays active 20s after death, no big deal who cares

Aeon slightly higher range. Well this is not really op at least i cant see it.
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I would like to know from people if in general to create here some faction diversity would be fine alike my suggestions or if people are in general against such ideas. The suggestions from my side was just a few minutes thought over ideas and of course there might be better ideas. I welcome any good ideas here

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 09 Oct 2016, 11:13

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T11:00:33+02:00

just keep in mind that sera T2 sonar is better than others (update the first post pls )

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 09 Oct 2016, 11:00

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T10:25:00+02:00

THe scu i forgot completely because they are no 100% intel units. Sparky has a radar as well but such things are "fine". Of course jamming sucks atm a bit. The t1 frigate jamming is the most useful ability since it is annoying the enemy and forces enemy to scout the fleet. And an enchanted sensor system i really would like to have

The projektile cam for mavor sounds like a very very nice idea for uef but then i would like to see it in other uef arti as well. But for mavor i would like to see sat as the scouting facility. It can do this job already but with so minimal abilities thats simply poor for a 28k mass unit with 150 dps laser beam. There is missing a sonar an omni and radar range is simply poor. The rdiculous weapon itself does not pay back with 28k mass cost.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 09 Oct 2016, 10:25

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T09:20:27+02:00

I would like to have some improvements to currently useless/unused intel abilities:

Jamming. Units with jamming effect should get personal stealth that gets enabled for 1 second every 10-20 seconds and refresh fake signatures. Reduce amount of fake signatures and their spread radius. This way jamming could work like a worse stealth and the unit could "get lost" among fake targets once in a while. Add this effect to Snoop, Titan, Neptune, Ace and Broadsword(or may be Continental?); replace Wailer's jamming with stealth.

Spoiler: show

Seraphim SCU enchanted sencor system. Even if you choose this upgrade over shield, it is never used for omni. It is a gun upgrade for range atm. Pay 800 mass for just 60 omni radius? pfff. Add a standard radar with 150-200 radius.

UEF SCU enchanted sencor system. This one is better than Seraphim as intel upgrade, but costs more and doesnt provide anything else. There aren't a lot of reasons to pay 1k mass for omni instead of x2.5 ROF. Adjust omni radius to 100, add Radar with 300 radius.

Cybran SCU stealth and cloak. These 2 upgrades are obselite:
-Personal stealth for 600 mass that is on same spot with AA or Nano at the stage of Omni sensors and t3 scouts? Integrate personal stealth into cybran SCU, make it disabled by default, but drain 300-500 e/sec when enabled. Replace personal stealth with stealth field with good radius. Adjust basic SCU cost to 2150m.
-Cloak. May be i didn't see this being used because unit becomes invisible..., but 5k mass, 500k e and -3.5k e/sec just to gets spotted once you enter omni range is some quesionable investment. Reduce cost to 2k m, 200k e and -1k e/sec; Remove HP boost, separate this upgrade from stealth and move to right hand. Combined with Nano-gun or AA-tech upgrade this unit could become very annoying to deal with.

"Projectile vision". You know that Lobo's shots reveal small area for a second when they spread on multiple projectiles? If i'm not mistaken description in Vanilla said there is a camera on projectile or something. Add this effect to Mavor with bigger radius. Not like it changes anything, but on 81x81 maps you would "scout" enemy base properly.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 09 Oct 2016, 09:20

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T04:11:45+02:00

Lich King wrote:
Maybe buff Omnis by reducing energy cost? At least in UEF and seraphim so they can see MLs coming from afar?

Why not in aeon too huh?

Statistics: Posted by biass — 09 Oct 2016, 04:11

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-08T23:33:29+02:00

I think it's better to give seraphim T3 sonar and be done with it. Intel structures are not meant to be strong, otherwise too hard to eliminate them. Maybe buff Omnis by reducing energy cost? At least in UEF and seraphim so they can see MLs coming from afar?
I thought all T3 spy planes had radar, omni and sonar? If (g)aeon does not - it should be added ASAP because that would put them at a disadvantage.

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 08 Oct 2016, 23:33

Re: Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-08T21:55:27+02:00

I dont want any messing with stationary radar ranges. It sounds unnatural. Rest is interesting.

And I want to point out smthing about t3 scouts, that you have missed. Cybran has stealth, omni AND sonar. It can scout submerged comms for snipe. Aeon has no sonar and thus cant. It may sound like a minor thing untill you loose the game cause you cant groundfire a comm with strats becouse you cant scout him .... (t1/t2 gets shot down by whatever there is).

If smthing give all t3 scouts sonar. Cause not only cybrans have untits to kill submerged comm, but aeon (for example) cant even find one.

Statistics: Posted by Bittered — 08 Oct 2016, 21:55

Faction diversity - Intel units

2016-10-09T11:06:16+02:00

I just thought about the changes zock planned for the balance patch. He wants to increase faction diversity with hp changes of eco buildings. While thinking about this i got the idea that a slight increase of faction diversity might not harm. But i would suggest first changes which are not affecting the balance of the game to hard. In fact i ve been thinking about balance changes which do not change the balance of the game. Intel units is a nice topic here. Through the whole balance of this game are hidden smaller or bigger changes in intel units, but the bad thing is they are not really through the whole game only partly implemented.

Here a summery of faction diversity of intel units in faf:

1.) T1 land scouts
-cybran has stealth
-aeon has bigger range
-uef most hp and 2dps gun
-sera big gun and cloak

2.) T1 air scouts
-3 factions have still scouting from a flying wreckage until it crashes
-sera has 20s released map exactly where the plane was shot

3.) T3 air scouts
Cybran has stealth
Aeon and UEF has no sonar in spyplane
no other faction has anything useful here

4.) T1 radar
absolutely nothing here all the same

5.) t2 radar
absolutely nothing here all the same

6.) t2 radar
absolutely nothing here all the same

7.) t1 Sonar
all the same

8.) t2 sonar
all the same except sera has nearly 50% more intel range

9.) t3 sonar
UEf got hp and torpedoes
aeon got good anti torpedo weapon
cybran got stealth ring
sera got no t3 sonar at all

10.) Special intel buildings
soothsayer of cybran opens map in the size of an omni
aeon eye of r. can open a small spot on the map for high e cost
uef satelite has light beam weapon, sight and small radar
-sera got no special intel building

So overall we can summarize that the features every faction got are in most cases the same and sound useful for every faction.
+UEF: HP & Gun -> undestructable scout
+AEON: Intel Range & Defense -> Unlimited vision ability on each point of the map
+Cybran: Stealth for scout units -> huge vision ability from own territory
+Sera: Scout vision from a dead unit & cloak & disadvantages in scouting on water

But still my idea here is to create a bit more smooth spreading of those features to make the factions more equal in balance of intel and increase the faction diversity. Here a list of units features how I would like them more. In my opinion those changes would not be op/ influecen balance in a huge way but give every faction it s own feeling how to play and advantages.

1.) T1 land scouts (no changes here since this unit has already good faction diversity)
-cybran has stealth
-aeon has bigger range
-uef most hp and 2dps gun
-sera big gun and cloak

2.) T1 air scouts
-UEF gets 105 HP and a 3dps aa gun so it can survive several intie shots and can kill other scouts within arround 10s
-Aeon gets bigger radar range
-Cybran gets same stealth like land scout but for higher e cost (maybe 100) default disabled. This feature in t1 scouts should definitely cost enough e to prevent abuse
-sera has 20s released map exactly where the plane was shot (no feature added since this feature it has is already nice)

3.) T3 air scouts
-Cybran has stealth (no other features needed here)
-AEON gets slightly bigger radar range
-Sera should get alike feature like t1 scout if killed all scout system including vision stay active for 20s
-UEF gets 1150hp to 1800 hp like a asf plane to survive a sam hit (1200damage)
-About the sonar differences no idea if they should stay as faction diversity ... omni is in all planes basically thats enough to scout under water acu

4.) T1 radar
-UEF gets 295 hp to survive a t1 bomber
-AEon gets bigger radar range for slightly higher e cost
-cybran gets personal stealth
Sera gets sonar half range of radar and sensor stays active 20s from destruction

5.) t2 radar
-UEF gets 1,2k hp to survive a single t2 bomber attack
-AEon again gets slightly more range for e cost
-Cybran gets personal stealth
-Sera gets sonar with 50% range of radar and sensor will stay active when dead for 20s

6.) t3 radar
-UEF gets 3,5k hp to survive a single t3 bomber run
-Aeon gets slightly bigger omni range not radar range
-Cybran t3 radar creates a stealth field around itself alike t2 stealth installation maybe a bit bigger
-Sera gets sonar with 50% of radar range and the usual 20s alive sensors after kill

7.) t1 Sonar (not sure if changes are needed here, maybe not)
-all the same

8.) t2 sonar
UEF could get a bit hp and torpedo like a stationary defense
AEon gets a torpedo defense so subs are protected next to it against enemy single t1 subs
Cybran gets stationary small stealth radius that t1 engis are hidden next to your naval facs but e cost should be slightly higher
-sera sonar t2 should be able to swim around alike other factions t3 sonar to remove a major imbalance for sera and have a slightly better sonar range. Sensor should stay alive until 20s after kill. Sera would have a nice sonar with moving t2 sonar with already increased range.

9.) t3 sonar (already nice faction diversity here no need for changes)
-UEf got hp and torpedoes
-aeon got good anti torpedo weapon
-cybran got stealth ring
-sera got no t3 sonar at all

10.) Special intel buildings (about those buildings you can argue a lot. Some goodies could be here added as well like eye of rhianna will cost a bit more mass but be a t3 omni sensor. And soothsayer maybe can establish a t2 stealth ring any where on the map for high e cost where you want it exactly like eye can create vision anywhere you want to. Sat should get simply much more intel functionality additional to its pocket laser to be the intel for a later mavor. Paragon does not need intel super nuke as well and cybran do not have anymore a 200k+ mass exp unit which is a pity btw.)
-soothsayer of cybran opens map in the size of an omni
-aeon eye of r. can open a small spot on the map for high e cost
-uef satelite has light beam weapon, sight and small radar
-sera got no special intel building

Any ideas on this? would it be op or good idea?
( 001 Updated with t2 sera sonar and sonar in spyplanes)

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 08 Oct 2016, 20:56