Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-30T16:41:26+02:00

A lot of the usual silliness in this thread, but I'll just address this specifically:

EvanGalea wrote:
The lack of default regeneration limits the longevity of the Atlantis, . It won't be getting many kills to boost it's health either.

It's actually quite easy to get a lot of veterancy on an Atlantis, you rack up kills using the SAMs. A single air battle over an atlantis can get you to two stars or more, no problem.

The point about ground fire against submerged units is a reasonable one in general. Otherwise, it sounds like you just don't really get UEF T4 units. I bet you also think the fatboy is a poor unit because it can't beat a GC.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 30 Aug 2016, 16:41

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-30T07:23:53+02:00

Just watch out since the ghetto atlantis is very close to bug abuse territoty.

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 30 Aug 2016, 07:23

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-30T06:32:51+02:00

Hawkei wrote:
IceDreamer wrote:If you really wanted to OP-ify Atlantis in a cool way you'd push the whole 'Surprise Attack' bit.

A 3500 dps atlantis will be quite the cool surprise to a few players i suspect.

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 30 Aug 2016, 06:32

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-30T06:30:25+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
If you really wanted to OP-ify Atlantis in a cool way you'd push the whole 'Surprise Attack' bit.

Stealth while submerged + temporary stealth on launched planes seems like a good way to break it ...

IceDreamer, that is why I was pushing the speed buff while submerged. Allowing the Atlantis to move faster means it stands a better chance of getting into position to launch those surprise attacks.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 30 Aug 2016, 06:30

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-30T06:26:52+02:00

Swol wrote:
The ghetto Atlantis is very overpowered at the moment with it's 3500dps direct fire. Anyone calling for further buffs is clearly delusional.

http://recordit.co/jcGJ7fkCHX

How did you do that?

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 30 Aug 2016, 06:26

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-30T06:22:54+02:00

The ghetto Atlantis is very overpowered at the moment with it's 3500dps direct fire. Anyone calling for further buffs is clearly delusional.

http://recordit.co/jcGJ7fkCHX

Statistics: Posted by Mel_Gibson — 30 Aug 2016, 06:22

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T16:08:06+02:00

that PR is only existent in equilibrium for now. its unknown whether it will be put into the beta or not.
it does not adjust the actual hitboxes, the purpose of this change is to allow them to clip through the ground less, making it sane to give them a lower dive depth.

its still a pretty limited fix and does not magically solve all issues, pathfinding and getting stuck is also unaffected.

there is an absurdly silly engine thing that sets dive depth to the highest position that unit has ever been, so a sub thats been in shallow water stays at that height and does not go down again. i dont know how to fix this.

one way to make subs immune would be to add special armour to them, but it could take a lot of effort and im unsure if we can change armour on the fly so its disabled when the subs are surfaced.

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 28 Aug 2016, 16:08

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T12:12:55+02:00

What about addressing the actual issue? The effectiveness of Ground Fire on completely submerged units first.

The unit is supposed to be submerged to the depths, and like all other submarines - it would be stupid to operate only as low as periscope depths (think 14m below the surface) or surfaced for long periods.

IRL a submarine's strength against surface ships is the practical inability to hit a submarine with surface-based ballistic weaponry. It's just too deep. Why aren't FAF's subs effectively this deep when completely submerged? Sure, they should be vulnerable during their transition as they move through that depth-band where surface weaponry has an effect on them.

Can we push the submersibles dive depth past the AoE effect of surface weaponry to safe depths? Or must this be simulated? I say, thoughtfully re-work submarines, not just the Atlantis.

Tempest and Atlantis users will want to make use of deeper water, post-beta:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/1367

Statistics: Posted by snuffles — 28 Aug 2016, 12:12

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T12:05:32+02:00

Yes sure but then you can assist the missiles and spam anti nuke rockets which would be kinda op. Thats the reason why nukes and antinukes have so insane built power that you hardly can spam or assist those rockets.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 28 Aug 2016, 12:05

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T11:50:51+02:00

Iszh wrote:
I thought carriers should get anti nuke?!? Has anybody solved the issued with built power?

My idea would be to introduce special carrier planes. Means to add lots of new units to the game. Copy all planes in a naval version just with alike names and much higher built time so the carrier can have 1024 built power not to spam anti nuke rockets and cannot produce its planes insanely fast. If somebody is bored he can give those new planes other models and maybe even minor balance features (e.g. better designed gainst naval stuff)

Easyer to copy jsut missile with less build time rather than all planes

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 28 Aug 2016, 11:50

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T10:58:54+02:00

I thought carriers should get anti nuke?!? Has anybody solved the issued with built power?

My idea would be to introduce special carrier planes. Means to add lots of new units to the game. Copy all planes in a naval version just with alike names and much higher built time so the carrier can have 1024 built power not to spam anti nuke rockets and cannot produce its planes insanely fast. If somebody is bored he can give those new planes other models and maybe even minor balance features (e.g. better designed gainst naval stuff)

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 28 Aug 2016, 10:58

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T10:52:49+02:00

If you really wanted to OP-ify Atlantis in a cool way you'd push the whole 'Surprise Attack' bit.

Stealth while submerged + temporary stealth on launched planes seems like a good way to break it

(Realistically, I'd like to allow it to fire the AA while submerged. Unique, cool, powerful, and not game-breaking).

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 28 Aug 2016, 10:52

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T10:23:01+02:00

Is it just me or does anyone else have to think of the torrent thread when seeing what is written here?

If you build an Atlantis to fight Tempests you might as well make cruiser to kill subs.

Things you want to have an Atlantis for:

edit:
Atlantis: 80r 0reg 252sonar, water-vision 100, storage 150units 2.8sp → 75r 15HP/s reg 250sonar 55water-vision 50air-storag 3.5sp

reload time 2s; damage 200 → reload time 1s; damage 100
Elevation 5 → 15, and also added proper hit-boxes and animation
@Exotic_Retard care to explain what the motivation behind the atlantis changes are in equilibrium?

another edit:
UEF has arguably the best/most specialized late game naval units of all factions. There is basically nothing that can destroy a decent UEF navy mix at the t3 stage. Giving the Atlantis more capabilities is not needed in my humbly opinion.

Statistics: Posted by PhilipJFry — 28 Aug 2016, 10:23

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-28T08:53:04+02:00

In truth, the torpedo's and SAM are little more than self defence. The primary purpose of this units is for use as an aircraft carrier. Which means keeping our distance and making aircraft to support the fleet. The advantage of the Atlantis is that it is able to do this while submerged and concealed from radar. In it's own way it is a kind of super-weapon. As an Atlantis loaded with Broadswords, submerged and then brought close to the enemy target can make for an awesome surprise attack.

Does this however justify the cost of the unit, or it's status as a T4? Well not really. That capability is just not very useful in real games. If it had a little bit more to it, the unit could be better.

I have made previous suggestions on what could make the unit better.

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 28 Aug 2016, 08:53

Re: Atlantis rebalance

2016-08-27T21:33:45+02:00

*balance terrorists arrive in their balance-mobile*
fixed in equilibrium
http://equilibrium.x10host.com/changelog/#t3navy
*drive off spreading propaganda leaflets everywhere*

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 27 Aug 2016, 21:33