Forged Alliance Forever

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-12T04:15:02+02:00

At my level, The Valiant is perhaps my most used T2 vessel. It has good HP and DPS, Which makes it very effective for dealing with Frigate spam. The UEF navy is often trying to make an early tech transition to get their Battlecruisers out. Which often means an early Valliant + Frigate combo is necessary to hold parity with the Frigate spam until I can field Battlecruisers.

When dealing with other factions destroyers, the answer is nearly always to go for a Frigate heavy force and charge straight in. The Valliant has very favourable turret position, firing cycle, and projectile speed for micro. As they have a good chance of hitting their targets, and no blind spot. The answer to fighting Salem is to let the Salem kite, but in doing so move behind the Salem and enter their blind spot. Salem has only a forward mounted turret and can't shoot directly backwards.

The Valliant is not meant to be used like other Destroyers. Think of it as a T2 Frigate.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 12 Jun 2016, 04:15

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-12T04:11:34+02:00

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 12 Jun 2016, 04:11

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-12T00:37:20+02:00

the "fun" in UEF is humilating your opponennts by winning as UEF.

Statistics: Posted by Sovietpride — 12 Jun 2016, 00:37

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T21:33:35+02:00

Watch 1500+ Ladder 1v1 games easy to find in vault. You will see mostly people use valiants only together with lots of t1 ship and very few cruisers. Shield boats are not so often used in ladder, but yes can be seen. Those ships are great for micro nearly as good as sera ships. UEF valiant has more damage over water and therefore more dps on range compared to sera. You need lots of t1 ships additional to those valiants and everything will be fine.

1. You need lots of t1 ships and valiants, nearly no cruisers. Dont forget torpedo boats according to the needs(scouting).
2. Attackmove your t1 ships to enemy and micro your t2 valiants
3. You always need to micro your navy in range of enemy and then once you are in range you can stop and focus t2 ships of enemy with valiants.

Shield boats are not so useful because micro doesnt help anymore. Shields go down. Better in low numbers is micro and escape from enemy shots. T1 frigates annoy enemy with jamming Rushing for t3 navy only on setons useful.

Thats a 14xx ranking guide for uef navy in ladder

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 11 Jun 2016, 21:33

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T20:28:46+02:00

Sovietpride wrote:
LichKing2033 wrote:
Iszh wrote:It is the t2 unit with the highest over water damage. And it needs a lot of micro. Thats punishment for having bc at t3 stage. I faced myself the problem vs sera on white fire that you need lots of micro with uef until t3 and since ladder is mostly t1 t2 uef is not easy naval. But in general if you want easy mode why you dont play cybran

Uef has shield boats and the best cruisers, if valiant would be better that would be a problem.

Being invisible = having an 8k HP shield over you. Cybran Mermaid nullifies a lot of counters in navy. If one does not know where to shoot - shields are useless.

Build a scout plane, manual target.

Seriously though, Valiants have high HP and high damage. Their shells don't have an obvious animation either, the depths of irritation is only evident when facing them.

The issue is cybrans get a higher range destroyer and efficient frigates, and thus in general will pressure you t1-t2... But then fall rapidly off a cliff at t3 naval.

Irritating yes, (shield boat power usage isn't light either) but overall I don't see much of an issue. Numbers tend to matter the most.

ok I see the point, they aren't that bad as I've said, but still though do you use them as often? Is it a fun unit for u to have when the enemy have t2 cybran/aeon/sera destroyers? doesn't it suck that for them to be used properly u have to have 2 unit types instead of one( shield and valiant) in most cases? Is it 10x times more plausible to rush T3 for neptune bc?

Statistics: Posted by Um ZiniZini — 11 Jun 2016, 20:28

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T20:17:18+02:00

LichKing2033 wrote:
Iszh wrote:It is the t2 unit with the highest over water damage. And it needs a lot of micro. Thats punishment for having bc at t3 stage. I faced myself the problem vs sera on white fire that you need lots of micro with uef until t3 and since ladder is mostly t1 t2 uef is not easy naval. But in general if you want easy mode why you dont play cybran

Uef has shield boats and the best cruisers, if valiant would be better that would be a problem.

Being invisible = having an 8k HP shield over you. Cybran Mermaid nullifies a lot of counters in navy. If one does not know where to shoot - shields are useless.

Build a scout plane, manual target.

Seriously though, Valiants have high HP and high damage. Their shells don't have an obvious animation either, the depths of irritation is only evident when facing them.

The issue is cybrans get a higher range destroyer and efficient frigates, and thus in general will pressure you t1-t2... But then fall rapidly off a cliff at t3 naval.

Irritating yes, (shield boat power usage isn't light either) but overall I don't see much of an issue. Numbers tend to matter the most.

Statistics: Posted by Sovietpride — 11 Jun 2016, 20:17

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T19:55:11+02:00

Iszh wrote:
It is the t2 unit with the highest over water damage. And it needs a lot of micro. Thats punishment for having bc at t3 stage. I faced myself the problem vs sera on white fire that you need lots of micro with uef until t3 and since ladder is mostly t1 t2 uef is not easy naval. But in general if you want easy mode why you dont play cybran

Uef has shield boats and the best cruisers, if valiant would be better that would be a problem.

Being invisible = having an 8k HP shield over you. Cybran Mermaid nullifies a lot of counters in navy. If one does not know where to shoot - shields are useless.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 11 Jun 2016, 19:55

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T19:24:08+02:00

i'm wondering why you are asking about uef destro about its low range, when sera have the same range.
i mean sera destro has same range less dps and less hp.

anyway the reason is that cybran destro can't really kite a uef destro. Even if they have more range, they don't shoot backward. + the mobility of cybran destro isn't that great, making them slow to turn around.
against aeon destro it's different, since aeon destro can fire backward, but it's easy(ish) to dodge aeon destro. (even if i think it's easier to dodge cybran destro)

overall valiant isn't a bad unit, add shield boat on top of that, and you have got a good combo.

i hear a lot of complain about each navy, so in my opinion T2 navy is well balanced.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 11 Jun 2016, 19:24

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T19:08:41+02:00

It is the t2 unit with the highest over water damage. And it needs a lot of micro. Thats punishment for having bc at t3 stage. I faced myself the problem vs sera on white fire that you need lots of micro with uef until t3 and since ladder is mostly t1 t2 uef is not easy naval. But in general if you want easy mode why you dont play cybran

Uef has shield boats and the best cruisers, if valiant would be better that would be a problem.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 11 Jun 2016, 19:08

Re: UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T18:25:18+02:00

When i see someone speaking about Valiants i always remember Shado killing 3 Salems with single Valiant. This unit is trash, but i believe it's only bad unit in UEF navy.

It could use speed buff to like 6 so it can catch other destroyers and some torp defence buff so it performs better against subs.

But it shouldn't be a good unit because at t3 stage Neptune will rape anything below t3 above water.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 11 Jun 2016, 18:25

UEF T2 navy destroyers, who uses them and why?

2016-06-11T17:55:10+02:00

Ive played 302 ranked games, that might seem pale in comparison to some chaps out there, but in all the games iv'e played, I rarely see anyone using uef t2 destroyers, their range is horrible, cybran destroyers can just out micro them by moving away from them and shooting them continuously from a distance they can't fire back at due to their bad range, they have 7k + hp but still I don't see anyone make use of them. It is not a unit you build and go attack a coastal base with, its bad vs other navies when the opposing player uses only the least bit of micro by sending his destroyers backward whilst theirs are shooting your t2 uef destroyer to smithereens. So to any pro's that stumble upon this question, it would be nice to knew what is the general consensus of this unit from u okes.

Statistics: Posted by Um ZiniZini — 11 Jun 2016, 17:55