Forged Alliance Forever

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-04-06T05:08:31+02:00

Legion_Darrath, that's pretty much what I hoped to see. I'll check the mod out soon.

Guys, what even are we arguing over? There are thousands of suggestions on this forum. Very few were accepted. Why argue over something that will not be implemented in the game? Just... leave this topic... as something that is going to be nearly impossible to achieve... As the possibility of ACU having AA in regular FAF is very slim. I wouldn't give it more than 1%.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 06 Apr 2016, 05:08

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-04-05T22:16:12+02:00

Check out my AA ACU mod, it should be on the vault. It enables the ACU gun to fire on air units. It's been a while but if I remember correctly it doesn't enable overcharge to fire air targets. As I remember from people using the mod and limited tests of my own is that while it does indeed allow the ACU to fire at air targets, they are usually too fast and nimble to be hit unless flying in a straight line (such as bombers) or slower units like gunships or transports.

This mod was created back in vanilla after people complained that the ACU was too weak early game to ghetto gunships and besides the ACU in the trailer could do it and it looked cool so I figured why the hell not?

You can very easily try this mod out by downloading it from the vault but do keep in mind that it is a very old mod and due to my inexperience at the time it'll effect the entirety of the ACU's main weapon. This means it'll use vanilla damage etc although I'm pretty sure this has remained unchanged in FAF.

Statistics: Posted by Legion Darrath — 05 Apr 2016, 22:16

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-04-05T13:50:10+02:00

biass wrote:
LichKing2033 wrote:. But. I would not mind having that tactic extinct.

This game lives from the plethora of strategies that can be employed and balancing it for tryhard landspam with no raiding will most certainly kill it...

There is a game for that already. It´s called ashes of the singularity.

@ Lichking: Honestly, I do see were you are coming from. I myself have been bombed into dust NUMEROUS times and it happens to me still all the freaking time. Still, screwing up the balance over something rather minor is not the solution here. If you find yourself time and time again being bombed, you need to remind yourself that the enemy just spend the equivalent of 3 T1 PGens in terms of power spent to get this thing out. For the same mass cost, you can grab FOUR T1 Mobile Air defense and save roughly 1500 units of power. If you cannot exploit that fact, then I am not sure game balance is the problem.

My usual reason to get bombed is the unwillingness to get units out early. I find myself often stuck into producing engineers. oh well, i digress.

Statistics: Posted by Vanguard — 05 Apr 2016, 13:50

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-11T04:40:32+02:00

As I have said 10 times... You are operating on the premise that the ACU needs this capability when it doesn't.

You fail to see the domino effect here. If you make air cheaper you throw off balance between air land and navy...

Statistics: Posted by briang — 11 Mar 2016, 04:40

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-11T04:16:09+02:00

Zoram wrote:
solution to what problem ?

If we assume that ACU can shoot and OC gunships, which are pretty expensive, what's the solution to that? I suggest cheaper air, if ACU is to have anti air capabilities.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 11 Mar 2016, 04:16

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-11T03:34:05+02:00

solution to what problem ?

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 11 Mar 2016, 03:34

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-11T02:17:15+02:00

briang wrote:
You are operating on the basis that the ACU should be effective against gunships and I am telling you as someone who has put ~1000 hours into this game that it simply won't fit.

Think about it, you make the investment for air to snipe the ACU and it is just able to OC your entire investment. Think about current balance T2 Gunships > land without AA but < flak and < Air to Air. If gunships cannot be effective against poorly defended land units what value do they have?

Gunships already have the potential to be massacred by a comparatively miniscule mass/E cost of Flak. There is just no reason for the ACU to be anti-gunship Jesus.

If you wander your commander around undefended when there is T2 air on the field you are SUPPOSED to lose. You are taking the mindset that this is somehow acceptable play that is being punished by OP air and that is simply not the case.

So what's the solution? Cheaper air?

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 11 Mar 2016, 02:17

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-11T01:25:36+02:00

You are operating on the basis that the ACU should be effective against gunships and I am telling you as someone who has put ~1000 hours into this game that it simply won't fit.

Think about it, you make the investment for air to snipe the ACU and it is just able to OC your entire investment. Think about current balance T2 Gunships > land without AA but < flak and < Air to Air. If gunships cannot be effective against poorly defended land units what value do they have?

Gunships already have the potential to be massacred by a comparatively miniscule mass/E cost of Flak. There is just no reason for the ACU to be anti-gunship Jesus.

If you wander your commander around undefended when there is T2 air on the field you are SUPPOSED to lose. You are taking the mindset that this is somehow acceptable play that is being punished by OP air and that is simply not the case.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 11 Mar 2016, 01:25

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-11T01:11:42+02:00

briang wrote:
It just isn't something that fits into the game. You're also forgetting that ACU already has the protection of an engineering suite.

T3 ACU can build itself a t2 shield and a sam in <15 seconds.

If you die to gunships with your ACU poorly positioned you deserve to lose. You are supposed to lose. Not to mention scouting and the variety of other ways to avoid being air sniped. We're not trying to make it more difficult to lose. Those are the simple weed-outs between <1.5k players and >1.5k players that create a high skill cap game.

This game is a series of investments, and what you're proposing devalues T2 air investment (and jesters) and adds precisely nothing in return. Air doesn't need any sort of nerf, it is already incredibly expensive.

T3 engineering suit won't be much use if there is nothing to build from. Which is the case when gunship snipes happen - usually at T2 when eco is very feeble for many players. No way in hell will a com be able to build sam+shield in 15 seconds if he has -20 or -15 mass with 0 in storages. OC those gunships would be the only option. And it is at late T1 T2 stages when a commander may go wondering somewhere a bit far or will go with a major attack in the front lines. Not too few people sacrifice T2 suit for gun on early stages to kill the dude with T2 suit.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 11 Mar 2016, 01:11

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-10T08:02:34+02:00

JaggedAppliance wrote:
LichKing please spend some time learning the game instead of wasting your time with these posts.

Statistics: Posted by biass — 10 Mar 2016, 08:02

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-10T15:10:41+02:00

It just isn't something that fits into the game. You're also forgetting that ACU already has the protection of an engineering suite.

T3 ACU can build itself a t2 shield and a sam in <15 seconds.

If you die to gunships with your ACU poorly positioned you deserve to lose. You are supposed to lose. Not to mention scouting and the variety of other ways to avoid being air sniped. We're not trying to make it more difficult to lose. Those are the simple weed-outs between <1.5k players and >1.5k players that create a high skill cap game.

This game is a series of investments, and what you're proposing devalues T2 air investment (and jesters) and adds precisely nothing in return. Air doesn't need any sort of nerf, it is already incredibly expensive.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 10 Mar 2016, 05:23

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-10T01:01:32+02:00

Gotta sort out a few things.
How about this compromise:
1) ACUs have the ability to shoot air.
2) They can shoot only gunships.
3) They switch between air/ground fire modes (like Siren class).
4) Overcharge is available to be used by ACUs.
That way, first bomber is not dead, strat runs are not extinct and ACU without air support can't get jumped by some lone restorer in the wrong place in the wrong time.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 10 Mar 2016, 01:01

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-04T05:31:12+02:00

LichKing2033 wrote:
. But. I would not mind having that tactic extinct.

Are you trying to ruin faf?

Reacting to first bomber is something that can be done in under a second, please learn your hotkeys and engineer micro before you try to balance the game for people who cannot. This game lives from the plethora of strategies that can be employed and balancing it for tryhard landspam with no raiding will most certainly kill it...

Statistics: Posted by biass — 04 Mar 2016, 05:31

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-04T04:38:26+02:00

T2 gunships have too much HP to be reliably killed by the ACU. So in reality you are advocating crushing early bomber play and having no impact on ACU strength vs T2+ air units.

Right now you have to build mobile AA to counter first bomber, you're advocating to remove any sort of need for unit based response, and instead replace it with 4 seconds for the ACU to blap it.

So really the only thing you're going to effect without overcharge is early air, and adding air overcharge simply can't work. Those two points combined are the reason this hasn't been done yet (and won't be).

It's always important to question your own ideas on a game like FA; it has been around long enough that people have proposed TONS of things.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 04 Mar 2016, 04:38

Re: ACU Shooting Air Unit?

2016-03-04T04:11:42+02:00

briang wrote:
Of course the ACU will shoot the stupid bomber. It takes 3 shots to kill and once the bomber is dead your opponent has literally nothing. You clearly don't have experience w/ first bomber and playing vs it. You seriously think that the 4 seconds it takes to kill the bomber are spent less efficiently than making pgens that the bomber will just kill?

Ghetto gunships should kill ACU in the open field if the player has no Air and no AA... that is how air works. ACU doesn't need more protection against air on its own. Can you imagine building 6 strats to snipe someone and then having them just overcharge it? It simply isn't viable.

Briang, believe it or not, I have experience with first bomber. And I am telling you, reacting to it takes time. Either it is build a turret, making MAA or inties, it all takes time. But. I would not mind having that tactic extinct. Reason being is that having ACU shoot gunships that are toasting him is better than losing a first bomber tactic. You seem to not read this thread too carefully as I already said "no OC for air". And strats are too damn fast for an ACU to shoot them. Unless, of course, you want to add a nanite missile system to ACU's shoulder in Supreme Commander 2 style. But I doubt you want to do that.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 04 Mar 2016, 04:11