Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-12-05T00:17:19+02:00

I still say a good way to make labs more useful would be to make them provide no veterancy to any units. Then you could use them as cannon fodder.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 05 Dec 2015, 00:17

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-12-04T22:20:24+02:00

you will not use only lab as mainline force you will use it as suport for your mainline forces (tanks) for have profit from they abillity.

as mainlaine forces it will never work because it eat so many micro to win, and lately you dont have this atm when tanks do it for you for free

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 04 Dec 2015, 22:20

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-12-04T22:01:17+02:00

No no no no no no no.

LABs are not supposed to be used as a mainline unit, I expressed this several times. We have a tank for that.

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 04 Dec 2015, 22:01

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-12-04T01:34:14+02:00

Or you jest need play game with Equilibrium balance mod and then you dont need to w8 another year when something from forum start be serius and in craped way would be integrate in main game. Microed labs win agaist same mass in not microed tanks, and lose agaist microed tanks. But provide some secondary ability, that make them worth of build even with main forces.

In eq:
Labs have better stats (from poor) and some potenciál with game agility that make them interesting tool even when are some tanks on field. So you can use them also on t2phase.

-Cybran emp balast after death for t1/t2 units
-Aeon reveal place on wreack for 20s on big area around
-Sera full invis when not move/fire, radar cover
-Uef better stats

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 04 Dec 2015, 01:34

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-12-03T22:03:26+02:00

This needs more attention

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 03 Dec 2015, 22:03

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-23T18:10:02+02:00

Micro'd labs can beat tanks well the uEf ones. the rest are weaker but faster.

If ur Cybran mantis is too strong to bother with lab unless you need early deny on units.

Statistics: Posted by Tremarl — 23 Nov 2015, 18:10

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T18:59:36+02:00

koppa, radar is also mobile scout.
and you have not true, but it doesnt matther. still nothing will happend from any forum threat so you know..

wat

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 20 Nov 2015, 18:59

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T17:07:15+02:00

manread wrote:
When people talk about changing target priority, would it be possible to have a drop down menu similar to fire select (ie ground fire/hold fire) that changes the target priority?

already exist dominos target priority mod, that fix all issue with target priority, but for magical reason its still not integrate.

koppa, radar is also mobile scout.
and you have not true, but it doesnt matther. still nothing will happend from any forum threat so you know..

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 20 Nov 2015, 17:07

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T16:07:24+02:00

When people talk about changing target priority, would it be possible to have a drop down menu similar to fire select (ie ground fire/hold fire) that changes the target priority?

Statistics: Posted by manread — 20 Nov 2015, 16:07

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T14:56:47+02:00

About target priority. Enginer is not best target priority. becasue when you meat lab+ engy and he would micro it and you not, you will shoot enginer but die before you kill it. and all time it would fire on enginer. Here are better targets taht you want to fire before.

LABs are early raiders. In a 1v1:

1) They are almost always across the map in 2-3 minutes, no one uses a LAB to defend an engi, tanks are far better for that.

2) Even if said LAB was by the engi, you can successfully kill the engi and even if the LAB dies, you know there's one coming and can send a tank to the respective side to defend.

3) If you make radar that early in the game you will lose [the game] hardcore

4) Microed LAB should EASILY be able to kill a non-microed LAB, after all instead of microing other things or doing build orders you're putting attention into 1 unit

I believe the best way to buff a LAB is to change the target to prioritise engies first. Instead of having to waste precious seconds on doing an attack order (which then changes if you move the LAB) you don't have to worry about the bot shooting the tank instead of the engi.

This is a major buff because it makes microing easy and its role as an early game raider is much more important now. LABs don't need to be useful in the later game as that's not what they are for.

Like I said above, a tank is a tank and it should always be able to easily kill a LAB (unless it's the case of an un microed tank vs a lab). Tanks are the streamlined front line units, LABs are not and should never be.

Some other ideas
- leave 100% mass wreckage,better to defend
- leave 5% mass wreckage, better to atack
- when killed dont give xp at all.
- when killed give also xp to a friendly unit(not lab) nearby. Very strong if mixed with T3 or T4 units.
- fast vet up so a vetted lab army gets almost as strong as t2 level tanks / bots. (mass vise)
- introduce a new t3 land unit: armored hover transport for labs
- parachute, you can drop them out of a flying transport and they dont get damage
- they can build walls
- you can upgrade / switch them to a another specialised weapon like shield breaker, tow, MANPADS

Can we keep this realistic please.

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 20 Nov 2015, 14:56

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T09:46:28+02:00

I wouldn't make LABS stronger. Only decrease build time and add something to make them useful later.

I suggested a dig in mode making them extremly hard to kill.
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10974#p112444

Some other ideas
- leave 100% mass wreckage,better to defend
- leave 5% mass wreckage, better to atack
- when killed dont give xp at all.
- when killed give also xp to a friendly unit(not lab) nearby. Very strong if mixed with T3 or T4 units.
- fast vet up so a vetted lab army gets almost as strong as t2 level tanks / bots. (mass vise)
- introduce a new t3 land unit: armored hover transport for labs
- parachute, you can drop them out of a flying transport and they dont get damage
- they can build walls
- you can upgrade / switch them to a another specialised weapon like shield breaker, tow, MANPADS

the selen's gun should be fixed to fire while moving

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 20 Nov 2015, 09:46

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T03:07:48+02:00

Not hating, but things to consider:
Be careful not to make ghetto OP
If labs are too good we will get lab drops, which will be even more potent than arty cause you can't stop it once it has landed. Make of this what you will
Labs aren't supposed to be equal to tanks, also right now a microed lab can beat a thaam or, slightly harder a striker or aurora.
If lab becomes too strong aeon will be able to use them to kick even more butt (I'm not sure how it will affect aeon vs other factions.
How will sera cope? Anti lab tank? Cause right now a single lab can beat 5-15 selens cause turret can't turn. That and thaam is worst against labs cause of fire rate (aurora at least has the range to fire first)
I personally don't see a need to buff the unit, sure there use is very limited, but labs win games. More often than people like to admit

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 20 Nov 2015, 03:07

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T01:29:19+02:00

same threat is here. With lot of arguments and solutions...
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=10974

About target priority. Enginer is not best target priority. becasue when you meat lab+ engy and he would micro it and you not, you will shoot enginer but die before you kill it. and all time it would fire on enginer. Here are better targets taht you want to fire before.

1.What you want to fire at first is radar, because radar die after first second if not less, and whiteout radar have more probability to run out, or criple enemy forces.
2. At second its (suprisly) ACU -> becasue ghetto snipe, you are go for acu and not other random units, when labs dont create ghetto then want to avoid acu all time so it dotn cause any down side.
3. T1 mobile, ->T2 mobile -> T3 mobile...

Imho enginer as target priority can cause lot of frustration when want use lab not only as kamikadze mision that kill enginer and die.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 20 Nov 2015, 01:29

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T00:34:53+02:00

TheKoopa wrote:
Make them prioritise engies.
Spoiler: show
I don't know if this has been done already

Current Aeon LAB priorities. The others are likely identical:

Code:: TargetPriorities = { 'SPECIALHIGHPRI', 'TECH3 MOBILE', 'TECH2 MOBILE', 'TECH1 MOBILE', 'STRUCTURE DEFENSE', 'SPECIALLOWPRI', 'ALLUNITS', },

basically... lol.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 20 Nov 2015, 00:34

Re: Balance of LABs vs. Tanks

2015-11-20T00:27:08+02:00

Zeldafanboy wrote:
LABs should have lower range, lower hp/mass, lower cost, lower buildtime/mass, higher speed, and higher dps/mass than tanks

Tanks should have greater range, more hp/mass, higher cost, higher buildtime/mass, lower speed, and lower dps/mass than LABs

Fixd

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 20 Nov 2015, 00:27