Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-19T02:36:08+02:00

Resin_Smoker wrote:
briang wrote:Dude what are you talking about? I'm merely saying that the hover change is good and is here to stay...

Make the mod... "If" you can.

Never did I say I intended to make a mod. I really don't know why you are so fixated on that. I was just using that as a means to convey to you that hovercraft in real life serve no anti-ship role. Therefor, it is illogical to make a comparison between this game and real life, just as it is for any other unit honestly.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 19 Nov 2015, 02:36

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T23:12:22+02:00

Make the mod... "If" you can.

you completelly missed the meaning of briang post which is kind of funny. Even more by the way you are replying to him.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 18 Nov 2015, 23:12

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T22:51:45+02:00

hover is fine, maybe they are a little to slow on water (just barely) but overall they are fine

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 18 Nov 2015, 22:51

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T22:25:03+02:00

briang wrote:
Dude what are you talking about? I'm merely saying that the hover change is good and is here to stay...

Make the mod... "If" you can.

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 18 Nov 2015, 22:25

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T20:49:00+02:00

Dude what are you talking about? I'm merely saying that the hover change is good and is here to stay...

Statistics: Posted by briang — 18 Nov 2015, 20:49

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T19:00:48+02:00

briang wrote:
This isn't Wargame... if we were making navy realistic the ships would have on deck gun and a vertical launch system and battleships wouldn't be in the game, torpedo bombers would be gone as well and submarines would need a huge overhaul. Do you have any idea how hovercraft are used? The only country that uses them is the U.S. They are transports from LCDs to land. They aren't used in an anti ship role because actual ships are used for that because it is more effecient.

We are talking about hover in the context of Supreme Commander. Frankly I have no idea why you even mentioned real life hovercraft. If you want to make some realistic naval mod be my guest, but in the context of Supcom the speed nerf is key and no other sort of change will have the proper effect. If I was going to make a realistic naval mod hover would be removed and be replaced with a landing craft that would be able to be built only on whatever I can up with for an LCD/LHD type ship.

Impress us and do it.

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 18 Nov 2015, 19:00

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T17:07:35+02:00

This isn't Wargame... if we were making navy realistic the ships would have on deck gun and a vertical launch system and battleships wouldn't be in the game, torpedo bombers would be gone as well and submarines would need a huge overhaul. Do you have any idea how hovercraft are used? The only country that uses them is the U.S. They are transports from LCDs to land. They aren't used in an anti ship role because actual ships are used for that because it is more effecient.

We are talking about hover in the context of Supreme Commander. Frankly I have no idea why you even mentioned real life hovercraft. If you want to make some realistic naval mod be my guest, but in the context of Supcom the speed nerf is key and no other sort of change will have the proper effect. If I was going to make a realistic naval mod hover would be removed and be replaced with a landing craft that would be able to be built only on whatever I can up with for an LCD/LHD type ship.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 18 Nov 2015, 17:07

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T08:49:40+02:00

briang wrote:
Nerfing the speed is the simple and most effective way to reduce T2 hover's efficiency against navy while not compromising its effectiveness on land as a niche raiding unit. The speed is much more the issue on the water than their DPS. If they are allowed to get into range with the reduced speed they need to be effective; if we revert to their previous speed value and add an RNG component unto their firing they may get into range but their effectiveness is compromised on sea and land. I still believe the current changes are exactly what is needed.

In the real world, hovercraft and amphibious tanks are not used in any anti-naval capacity.

That's because they were never setup to attack ships... Modern missiles would spread a hover-tank before it came into range. Maybe setting up Naval to reflect real world capabilities / limitations would be more effective here?

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 18 Nov 2015, 08:49

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T03:24:18+02:00

Nerfing the speed is the simple and most effective way to reduce T2 hover's efficiency against navy while not compromising its effectiveness on land as a niche raiding unit. The speed is much more the issue on the water than their DPS. If they are allowed to get into range with the reduced speed they need to be effective; if we revert to their previous speed value and add an RNG component unto their firing they may get into range but their effectiveness is compromised on sea and land. I still believe the current changes are exactly what is needed.

In the real world, hovercraft and amphibious tanks are not used in any anti-naval capacity.

Statistics: Posted by briang — 18 Nov 2015, 03:24

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-18T00:23:19+02:00

In the "Real-World" hover capable vehicles are much faster on water vs land. Makes no sense to me why they're currently gimp'd on water.

Now should the speed be an issue for naval, it's 100% possible to script a weapon firing randomness debuff while a hover-unit is both on water and at max speed. After all, hover-units "wobble"... Thus an increase in speed should result in greater vehicle wobble, hence less accurate fire.

Cheers,

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 18 Nov 2015, 00:23

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-17T23:29:48+02:00

i thought issue was that hover tanks are easyer to controll compared to navy, and they can bunch up well and deal good targetfire DPS on ships while frigs can often miss them, and if you want to be cost effective you have to retreat and engage again and again and retreat more to not get surrounded... For setons that forses a retreat that allows for hover spamming player to reclaim in the sea...
for normal maps it would mean that hover tanks cross rivers/oceans fast while able to make a good fight against frigates, prett annoying xD

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 17 Nov 2015, 23:29

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-17T23:12:13+02:00

well tbh it's completelly different.
The issue with hover, was their low BT in comparaison to naval. Enabling the possibility to set up a big spam very easily. The issue being that hover could rapidly get a critical size easily, that was able to fight frigate mass efficiently. The reduction of speed, allow the navy to set up a frigate spam more easily (more time) + give him more time for his destro to be more effective. (thinking about aeon and especially cybran destro, while sera desro is OP against hover).

The advice to set up our own hover spam doesn't apply for cybran. And the argument that i just said, still apply for cybran navy even if it is well known that their frigate is the best.

i repeat it to be clear : hover in mass vs mass isn't efficient, but it's way easier to invest mass in hover leading to a difficulty to counter it. So if you couldn't keep up for the navy production, you would see mass efficient win for hover.

as for air, it is completelly different (as i were saying), air is more mass efficient against navy. But air have some hard weakness (being hard counter by hover flak) the most important being that the BP require to be able to face navy. (that is pretty much the same issue than for hover vs navy, but this time navy has the best BT)

i don't think it is neccessary to have this discution again. If you need information about this, you can still go back to the topic where we argued over this topic.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 17 Nov 2015, 23:12

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-17T20:13:29+02:00

Then revert to Frigates, destroyers, or even your own hover.

The best army is a mixed army always. If you make only hover you will die. Frigate spam will kill you, destroyers will kill you etc etc.

Hover is not mass efficient. You are basically swarming a small area for zone control at the 10x the cost of what the cost of a naval army would be for the same effect.

Same shit with using only air v navy.

Statistics: Posted by Tremarl — 17 Nov 2015, 20:13

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-17T20:10:33+02:00

gunship doesn't work against hover flak

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 17 Nov 2015, 20:10

Re: Nerf Acceleration on Water of Hover instead of Max Speed

2015-11-17T20:05:12+02:00

Hover was never OP. two things -- Frigates -- Gunships

If you don't have air control - Cruisers + Gunships. It's not a hard concept really...

Statistics: Posted by Tremarl — 17 Nov 2015, 20:05