Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-18T09:50:04+02:00

Loyalist are extremely good when paired with high dps units is true...
Loyalist stun good against ACU? Well not sure about it
Ok cool you stun com and surround it.... Meanwhile he just reloads it OC while it is stunned... Inability to move is ofc annoying but it can't run away anyway.

Similar to rhino/obsidian compared compared to pillar, pillar is cheaper and cause of it when it gets OC ed it is not so painfull compared to rhino/obsidian

Against percies will be similar issue, they will just reload guns while being stunned...

Against GC it is ofc really strong cause GC has not frontloaded beam weapon... Against chicken it is all about running around it, if you try to move all loyals in close combat they may be all together and can get killed by splash, hard to compare agains ML or mega, have not used them like that, also depends on micro

I mean it is more often about speed range and dps...
Also if somethng geta permastunned then t probably means that you are loosing alot of loyals (and it mostly worth it against exps)

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 18 Nov 2015, 09:50

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-12T23:45:06+02:00

well actually it depends a lot of the terrain.
on a flat terrain, without nearby obstacle, and with a good micro, loya will easily beat the experimental. Way mass efficiently. Abuse of emp and it can become ridiculous.

When you get terrain with multiple obstacle, increasing distance between 2 points, fucking up pathfinding... you can expect a not so bad out come for the exp.

actually loya have higher dps for price than brick, but lower range, and a little lower health for the price. The speed can make up for the range difference somewhat. The range advantage of brick over loya isn't important for facing an exp in most situation, because majority of exp can't kite. Only ML can kite (but too low range, + weird behavior of the main gun doesn't make it easy) and mega (which can kite due too long range weapon, but the advantage of kiting is limited by the speed of the unit when backing. Still an important micro to do.)

in general,I think emp of loya is more OP against T4 than it is against ACU.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 12 Nov 2015, 23:45

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-12T21:16:03+02:00

yeager wrote:
rather it should increase your chances of beating exps by a far margin but not be a counter within itself.

It can't-- you need to pair it up with higher dps units like Bricks or other experimentals to use it most effectively

Statistics: Posted by Zeldafanboy — 12 Nov 2015, 21:16

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-12T02:58:35+02:00

JaggedAppliance wrote:
keyser wrote: you can then remove stun on acu, but buff cybran T2 pd, so that they have viable unit to deal with rambo com + army attack.

I don't buy that that's a niche filled by loyas, i mean really?

i always thought cybran's god like air to ground was the key to counter rambo. that or monkey

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 12 Nov 2015, 02:58

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-12T02:55:59+02:00

Au definitely, scu sure, everything else should be fine, however it is, at the end of the day, a RAID unit, i don't think it should hard counter exps, especially when you get the megalith, rather it should increase your chances of beating exps by a far margin but not be a counter within itself.

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 12 Nov 2015, 02:55

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-12T00:49:54+02:00

cybran is about having nice features/tactics and a shittier army/PD in return

well thing is loya is way better than titan for the moment xD
as i keep saying we should buff titan than nerfing loya, until it appears that loya stun feature on ACU is really op and being abuse (like beetle drop for exemple)

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 12 Nov 2015, 00:49

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-12T00:32:37+02:00

I don't think that because a tactic is frustrating to its victim it needs to be nerfed. But i could agree on a nerf on the time it stuns a com, although im not good enough to really Judge it i think. But it would be a shame if another nice cybran feature gets removed, because cybran is about having nice features/tactics and a shittier army/PD in return.

Statistics: Posted by wasdf — 12 Nov 2015, 00:32

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-12T00:25:23+02:00

Please demonstrate why Loyalist EMP is overpowered

Perhaps it should be toned down against other commanders (even though it is used against commanders so rarely)

But stunning experimentals/ sACUs is fine

In fact they are a counter to GCs because of their unique ability

Statistics: Posted by Zeldafanboy — 12 Nov 2015, 00:25

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-11T23:32:14+02:00

keyser wrote:
you can then remove stun on acu, but buff cybran T2 pd, so that they have viable unit to deal with rambo com + army attack.

I don't buy that that's a niche filled by loyas, i mean really?

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 11 Nov 2015, 23:32

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-11T21:23:58+02:00

ok now im sory for topic autor, for not beein constructive but can not reply:

keyser wrote:
because your question isn't relevant. a better question would be...

Its not my question that is not relevant. Its your reply that was not relevant

keyser wrote:
i was just saying that a removing of emp against those few type of unit, would drastically nerf the use of the loya.

You jast say that it will drasticly nerf use of loya so i was asking if then would you build it drasticly less. You replay was not relevant manipulative and stupid, and i only abuse it against you.

____________________________

To more constructive way: Imho emp against acu is not that strong, imho its niche problem.
Mainly becasue it occur extremly rare.
Secondary because loyalist need die for create emp field.

-When it stun all units except acu, its nearly same as when it stunn all units. Acu is destroying T3 units mostly by OC, damage with gun is 200 with oc 3600 = with oc take 18-36x more damage as with continual firing. OC have 3,3s reload time and reload time is not stuned by emp so when use oc and is stuned then can nearly imediatly use another oc, its not so fluent, but oc is not that much touched by emp for that reload time.

So why it is then good to remove it?
- because it potencialy can cause situation that are extremly frustrated for victim. It dont change reasult much but its big diferences how side that will lose will feel from that losing. Because it is jast situation where cant do nothing. he can literaly go out of computer because units that can help him somehow are stuned so he cant use units on with is actualy loking. When can manipulate with acu then its something that he can do. It will probably not help him that much, but he will die as man and dont cry about some shit that happend to him and he cant do nothing last 16 second because everything was stuned. Have to feeling that it is on his hand is big deal on feeling of life/game.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 11 Nov 2015, 21:23

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-11T21:04:38+02:00

But you still avoid answer on very simply question.

because your question isn't relevant. a better question would be "would it be better for the balance to remove the stun feature on loya ?"
And as i explained the possibility of emp ACU is really important for cybran in some situation. Otherwise they would fall behind at balance imo. Maybe reducing the duration of stun on ACU can be a good way.

Please stfu arguing in this thread.

good spirit, i like.

this is a pretty common situation: deeper/more fun gameplay vs cancer

it's not even it. The stun of loya can balanced so it isn't "cancer". Like i said it is sometime required to have this feature for cybran.

Stunning ACUs is complete bs imo.

you can then remove stun on acu, but buff cybran T2 pd, so that they have viable unit to deal with rambo com + army attack.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 11 Nov 2015, 21:04

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-11T20:40:02+02:00

Please stfu arguing in this thread.

Exotic_Retard, it is quite obvious that loyas stun is very powerful, whether or not people use them for that purpose regularly. Stunning ACUs is complete bs imo. I would rather prevent cancer than cut it out when it appears. If it must be abused before it will be nerfed then I will do my best to abuse them.

Statistics: Posted by JaggedAppliance — 11 Nov 2015, 20:40

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-11T20:41:07+02:00

keyser wrote:
And to your question "So when loyalist would not stun ACU you will drasticlly change your opinion about loyalist and use them drastriclly less?" I think the possibility to use emp against commander, is a good way to counter ACU assault, when cybran doesn't have lot of tool (weak T2 pd) (corsair and beetle are still possible but are unrialable) to counter them. Your opponent have to worry about the possibility of that stun when using upgraded com with a T2 push for exemple.
in other term, it's not only about the stun, it's about the fear of this possibility. a cybran com gonna have some difficulties to defend a upgraded (nano + gun +T2) sera com + ilshy army (early T3 is a weak timing for cybran). Having loya stun tool for an extra way to defend, is really important. If your opponent goes for that kind of push, and see that you have a T3 facto and some loya, he may consider adapting his strategy.
This may be only a situation, but it is still a situation that happen quite often : early T3 cybran vs com push + T2.

So what is you answer on my question.. like im still try to understand what are you saing, would you use loyalist when would not stun acu drasticly less or not? What you say is of course in some part true, and of course i consider it. But you still avoid answer on very simply question.
Isnt it becasue you will use loyalist absoluthly same as now, even when they will not stun acu?

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 11 Nov 2015, 20:38

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-11T20:14:05+02:00

keyser wrote:
I was talking about the place of stun in general. Even if title says "Loyalist stunning acus", we can't avoid to talk about all the use of emp from loyalist and to what extend a nerf may be needed.
[/color].

Well no, this is what that shiny "New thread" button is for.

Anyways enough thread derailing, keep going and forget this ever happened

Statistics: Posted by D4E_Omit — 11 Nov 2015, 20:14

Re: Loyalist stunning acus

2015-11-11T20:08:53+02:00

you know you could have just said that instead of somewhat salty one line posts and insulting people. that's not nice and makes you look like a d***.
because what you explained here is not clear at all based on your previous posts. and i like to think i know english quite well.

personally i find this very hard to judge because using loyalist stun vs acu seen very rarely.

the reason to remove it is:
it could be annoying to play against if your acu is stunned and cant do anything, which makes loyalists a lot better vs acus in some cases than other units are.
the reason to keep it is:
the amount of strategy and mind games and bluffs and special tactics/combos and creative use of units is decreased if you remove this.

this is a pretty common situation: deeper/more fun gameplay vs cancer - often they come hand in hand with a lot of features and mechanics in this game, so you need to choose between the two here.

personally i prefer to keep it because to me the cancer is minimal atm. the situations where this is seriously annoying to the enemy are practically unseen imo, and can only be fabricated inside a sandbox.
however the clever gameplay is also not seen - both are not seen because just building loyalists like this is rare. so really i guess i don't care too much since this is just not a big part of the game atm. if loyalists start being used more in general this would be more relevant though

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 11 Nov 2015, 20:08