Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-10-11T19:34:48+02:00

It already has good regen, maybe stealth, but I'd say give it a 1 step upgrade option

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 11 Oct 2015, 19:34

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-10-11T17:47:22+02:00

I think its a symbolic thing that Cybran has never been able to build T3 shields from scratch and I like it that way.

Rather I suggest that ED5 for all its extra cost should be one of the strongest shields, but not HP Wise instead ED5 Should either do one of the following:

Very High regeneration rate in comparison to other shields, but very low shield HP

Provide a stealth field

Statistics: Posted by Tremarl — 11 Oct 2015, 17:47

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-25T06:31:53+02:00

I think ED3 or ED4 being buildable at T3 wouldnt hurt anyone. I would prefer ED4 since late in the game I thinl ED3 would alway end up being upgraded. Less unneccessary clicking, more fun for everyone

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 25 Sep 2015, 06:31

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-25T05:48:41+02:00

keyser wrote:
If you are talking about fixing an exploit I'm all for it. The title of the thread doesn't say nerfing beetle drop, it says removing beetle snipes. I am all in favor of you fixing the teleporting beetle snipe.

if you read the topic, in the end that what we conclude to do. the title was here to provoque people.

Never read the part written...

"BEETLE DROP DISCUSSION DIRECTION CONCLUSION: THIS WAY."

It reads as an open discussion where I was politely asked to STFU and people stopped adding to the thread when it was felt more input wasn't getting anywhere, meanwhile thread title continues to read, REMOVING BEETLE SNIPES. I get it though, everybody is supposed to infer you guys have solved it from that that. Referring to last line of first post of this tread. etc etc etc.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 25 Sep 2015, 05:48

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-25T03:39:37+02:00

viewtopic.php?f=67&t=10199

Apofenas wrote:
I mentioned about cybran shields before. It may probably need whole rework because you simply need more and more mass to get additional HP: ed2->ed3 800 mass for 3k more HP, ed3->ed4 1200 mass for 3k more HP and ed4->ed5 1800 mass for 2k more HP. Eventually you invest ~1200 mass more for same shield as UEF T3 can build straight.
There is one problem: upgrade costs same as building unit from nothing, so if you make for example ED5 buildable, it will cost 1800 mass, which is extremely cheap for t3 shield, but if you make it cost 3k as t3 shield, than you will over pay ~2400 mass for ED5 by upgrading it from ED1 compare to 600 and 700 for UEF and sera. Did you solve this problem in your mod?
I suggest next:
-ED3 cost 400(from 800) mass for upgrade - 860 mass from total from ed1. So this stage would be more competitive to other factions' t2 shields.
-ED4 buildable on t3, cost 2800-3000(from 1200) mass, 15000(from 13000) hp. So this shield would be very close to UEF t3 for both being built from nothing and being upgraded from t2, have same hp, but have significant disadvantage: shield size of ed4 is 34 compare to 44 for UEF)
-ED5 cost 1000+ mass for upgrade, have 18000-21000(from 15000) hp. So this shield would be close to aeon and seraphim t3 shields but have ineffective hp/mass compare to all other t3 shields including ED4

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 25 Sep 2015, 03:39

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T22:55:19+02:00

If you are talking about fixing an exploit I'm all for it. The title of the thread doesn't say nerfing beetle drop, it says removing beetle snipes. I am all in favor of you fixing the teleporting beetle snipe.

if you read the topic, in the end that what we conclude to do. the title was here to provoque people.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 24 Sep 2015, 22:55

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T22:44:11+02:00

I suggested in the past the ability to build the ED3- at t3, considering it's halfway.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 24 Sep 2015, 22:44

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T22:10:06+02:00

keyser wrote:
we aren't nerfing beetle, only beetle drop.

Btw, it's not because you nerf an unit that you need to buff an other one. that's not how balance work.

finally, there is some argumentation already about making ED3 buildable with T3 suit units. I'm not about when this will be done though.

If you are talking about fixing an exploit I'm all for it. The title of the thread doesn't say nerfing beetle drop, it says removing beetle snipes. I am all in favor of you fixing the teleporting beetle snipe.

Also not advocating tit for tat. I simply hate the shields as they are. They've been this way for way too long. There is more micromanagement in FAF now and the Cybran shields management add nothing but a disadvantage for that player.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 24 Sep 2015, 22:10

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T22:04:27+02:00

Zeldafanboy wrote:
... for Cybran shields, they're perfectly balanced. The only option I would like to have is building an ED5 from scratch with T3 or sACUs

AGREE

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 24 Sep 2015, 22:04

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T22:02:35+02:00

theeggroll wrote:
KD7BCH wrote:I agree, however they are nerfing beetles in another thread, removing faction diversity left and right with sacus, talking about buffing stuff that makes no practical sense and meanwhile here we have Cybran shields which late game you do need to rely on shielding factories and fixed structures against some attacks. Against a first pass Strat bomber strike we need a clearer path to the best shields. Fewer levels of bullshit to get to them.

That is my argument.

A little ragey, There is still plenty of faction diversity imo, SACU's needed fixing and beetles were really over powered, As far as Cybran sheilds being weak, I honestly have never had trouble with this unless t3 art is involved, in which case most factions shields die to the arty anyways. ED5 Has big radius, 2nd highest hp (IIRC), just takes a while to upgrade. Get some assistance on it and it upgrades quickly enough. Can you shoot me with some examples of when you need the shields to be stronger? I build sheilds to just make my base late game feel safe, overall I dont feel like they protect me from that much cost effectivity wise. To refute your example of first strat bomber pass problem, IMO cybran sheilds work the best, just upgrade it quickly after seeing the strat and you get insta hp bonus, leave your sheild upgrade at 99% and pause it and wait for the shield to go down, that instantly causes it to be full hp without recharge time, perfect against strats. The upgrade effectively gives it double hp in that case, (plus a little extra) and makes it particularly effective imo.

Also RoLa, you can que cybran shields to upgrade from ED1 to ED5 all at once, too lazy to quote.

Not everytime I type am I raging bro ok? Here I am not raging at all. But lets talk facts here on these ED5.
http://spooky.github.io/unitdb/#/XSB430 ... 01,URB4207

They are the 3rd largest, after dumping in twice as much mass as AEON, and a full 1/3 more energy, and having to click through 4 upgrades. There is no ability to to build them directly. Even with all that investment they are still weaker than all of the other shields, UED excluded, which are larger and cheaper and directly buildable in T3 or upgradeable from T2 so you can stack them much easier.

Look you don't have an issue with them great, want to argue they don't give you any management issues superb, but costwise they are not even close to comparable on the high end and they require lots of other management baggage for no benefit. They are potentially taking away a positive Cybran faction diversity or "Repurposing the beetle" and I'd like it considered that they "repurpose" the Cybran shields to make them not suck as much.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 24 Sep 2015, 22:02

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T21:32:29+02:00

Better support for multi-upgrades coming soon (cybran shields, hives, mexes etc)

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/934

Statistics: Posted by Crotalus — 24 Sep 2015, 21:32

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T21:27:00+02:00

The beetle nerf is confirmed?

That's stupid imo, 3 mobile flak with your com will stop that 100% of the time

As for Cybran shields, they're perfectly balanced. The only option I would like to have is building an ED5 from scratch with T3 or sACUs

Statistics: Posted by Zeldafanboy — 24 Sep 2015, 21:27

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T18:41:02+02:00

we aren't nerfing beetle, only beetle drop.

Btw, it's not because you nerf an unit that you need to buff an other one. that's not how balance work.

finally, there is some argumentation already about making ED3 buildable with T3 suit units. I'm not about when this will be done though.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 24 Sep 2015, 18:41

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T17:35:24+02:00

KD7BCH wrote:
I agree, however they are nerfing beetles in another thread, removing faction diversity left and right with sacus, talking about buffing stuff that makes no practical sense and meanwhile here we have Cybran shields which late game you do need to rely on shielding factories and fixed structures against some attacks. Against a first pass Strat bomber strike we need a clearer path to the best shields. Fewer levels of bullshit to get to them.

That is my argument.

A little ragey, There is still plenty of faction diversity imo, SACU's needed fixing and beetles were really over powered, As far as Cybran sheilds being weak, I honestly have never had trouble with this unless t3 art is involved, in which case most factions shields die to the arty anyways. ED5 Has big radius, 2nd highest hp (IIRC), just takes a while to upgrade. Get some assistance on it and it upgrades quickly enough. Can you shoot me with some examples of when you need the shields to be stronger? I build sheilds to just make my base late game feel safe, overall I dont feel like they protect me from that much cost effectivity wise. To refute your example of first strat bomber pass problem, IMO cybran sheilds work the best, just upgrade it quickly after seeing the strat and you get insta hp bonus, leave your sheild upgrade at 99% and pause it and wait for the shield to go down, that instantly causes it to be full hp without recharge time, perfect against strats. The upgrade effectively gives it double hp in that case, (plus a little extra) and makes it particularly effective imo.

Also RoLa, you can que cybran shields to upgrade from ED1 to ED5 all at once, too lazy to quote.

Statistics: Posted by theeggroll — 24 Sep 2015, 17:35

Re: Cybran Shields

2015-09-24T17:11:24+02:00

RoLa wrote:
KD7BCH wrote:They have 4 levels of upgrade > Require excess management when compared to other races shields, others have 1 level of upgrade. There is no option to build right into level 5 > big drawback
That could be adressed by changing the UI make it posssible to queue subsequent upgrades too.

KD7BCH wrote:
They are too weak at at ED1, they are relatively sucky at ED5, more mass and energy for a weaker shield with a smaller radius than Seraphim. ED5 costs 10k+ more energy and 1.2k more mass for 1 shield of the same strength, about same recharge, and smaller size. Ugh.
Cybran are not meant to be played passivly. As Cybran you have so many sneaky attack weapons others dont have. You shouldn't depend on shields. In team games with biggers maps you have the option to use the shields of another faction.

I frequently use Sera Shields or UEF because Cybran shields suck.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 24 Sep 2015, 17:11