Forged Alliance Forever

Re: The Novax

2015-10-22T21:11:07+02:00

booooooooring

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 22 Oct 2015, 21:11

Re: The Novax

2015-10-22T12:42:24+02:00

I still vote for -> change novax to an exp radar array.

1500e cost
no vision
no weapon
simply flying t3 omni array with omni and radar
5000 mass station cost

Reason is uef has to many of this kind of weapons (t3 arti and mavor), but no good support intel which if needed for using mavor as deadly as super nuke or other super gameenders. And sat would no matter how you balance it always be useless or op and remove any use for mavor/t3 arti because making them stronger is killing any reason to built an stationary arti simply spam sats.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 22 Oct 2015, 12:42

Re: The Novax

2015-10-22T12:34:04+02:00

3 Arty = Kill All shield configurations
2 Arty = Kill almost all shield configurations (All real game configs)
1 Arty = Force enemy to spend significant mass on shields.

1 Novax Force out some t2 shielding
2 Novax beats some shields but fails against most configs
3 Novax Still fails against most configs

6 Novax Kills half of configs
9 Novax Still doesn't kill all shield configs

Statistics: Posted by Tremarl — 22 Oct 2015, 12:34

Re: The Novax

2015-10-20T20:38:16+02:00

C-Star wrote:
whenever you target manually on a low-hp target (e.g. a t3 engi or hard damaged cruiser with 200 hp left) the satelite shoots it down and then stops firing! That way the rest of the firecycle is wasted. This is kinda stupid, cause if it would have chose that target automatically it would have swiped over to the next target, dropping the rest of its beam..

sry for quoting myself , but i'd like to see this attationed as a BUG, and not as a discussed balancing-issue. So pls seperate this from any buffing/changing.

Statistics: Posted by C-Star — 20 Oct 2015, 20:38

Re: The Novax

2015-09-28T09:48:12+02:00

About that: it was one of the "ideas" i had long ago, the centre can make many sats but the weapon itself is on the centre, the sat acts as a mirror to bounce the beam on the target.

See C&C Generals Particle Cannon Superweapon.

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 28 Sep 2015, 09:48

Re: The Novax

2015-09-28T09:37:23+02:00

Vashon wrote:
If you want a solution, have the Novax Center cost 8k less, but have every satellite cost 10k mass with a build time of 1 minute, and make it possible for a Novax center to build multiple Satellites. The initial cost for the first Satellite goes up, but the cost for subsequent Satellite's goes down in expense and space consumption.

No.

You said it yourself, something has to give when compared to Mavor/T3 arty. Space consumption is one of the drawbacks/weaknesses of the Novax. Talking about removing it doesn't make any sense. Fiddle around with its damage or extra abilities if you must (although I don't see why it's necessary) but don't start stacking sats in one building. No.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 28 Sep 2015, 09:37

Re: The Novax

2015-09-27T00:49:08+02:00

briang wrote:
Vashon wrote:
briang wrote:I don't see a reason to buff this unit. It works just fine. Many of you are qq'ing about how it is bad at things it isn't supposed to be good at. No, an invulnerable unit is not going to blast 3737484 shields and kill a base for the price of a fatty, UEF late game is more than good enough. Someone suggested giving it an EMP, why? It isn't supposed to kill mobile units and even if you gave it an EMP it would still be really bad at that...

thing is, its nearly impossible to put the power of 23 Fatboy's to use against other land Experimentals. But 23 Novax centers can be grouped up to fucking murder armies of other Land Experimentals. Even a Megalith wouldn't survive more than two volley's, and against say, a dozen Galactic Colossi, as soon as those Fatboy's run out room to run away they start dying fast enough to save the remaining Colossi. But 23 Sat's? You can cut that group in half to 11 Sats/12 Sats, and you would have about four to six Colossi a minute going down.

But what about the dreaded Percival horde?! A pack of 50 of them have an Alpha damage of 80k, and a health pool of 465k. Not so bad for Chickens with their massive splash damage, or some Colossi with their insta-kill hands, which means that several Percivals can and will die before they "reload". Megalith's and Monkeylord's have terrible issues with them, with no insta killing or super awesome splash. But the Novax?

23 sat's with 3000 damage shots do about 69k every 26 seconds. So it would take about 3 minutes of continuous fire to kill 50 Percival's. Which given how slow Percival's and Brick's are, isn't so bad. Actually, for the same Mass, you would be better off with a shitload of Titan's, they move fast enough to get to the enemy base before they all get slaughtered.

Let's be honest. Even just 5 Novax's Satellites are a brutal menace to any unit on land and a nasty addition to whatever damage your land forces kick out, and the best part? When you enemy decides to try and run away to conserve their forces, they are SOL. So if you do build these things, try to build about three of them in secret, then go after T3 Pgens and begin blapping them with your invincible and unstoppable murder machines. If you do it fast enough and right, you can bottleneck power, and then laugh at them. Forget mass, keep the power grid offline so the shields are useless.

I don't know why we are even discussing their use against mobile units, it is irrelevant to their purpose. The numbers you are using are ridiculous. You aren't incorrect, but your argument isn't relevant.

Because herpetus McDerpington used that many. And apparently my math is wrong, because FAF buffed the Novax into doing 4k damage per satellite instead of 3k. Wow. So six of them can oneshot a lone Sera shield.

It's basically a Mavor for the price of a Fatboy, something has to give, and sheer power is what gives. So building them in 1v1 is super risky, since a single Novax is of dubious use if you can't hold the enemy off, but assuming you can it does give you the ability to accurately strike back, the main issue is getting enough of them up because of the room they take.

If you want a solution, have the Novax Center cost 8k less, but have every satellite cost 10k mass with a build time of 1 minute, and make it possible for a Novax center to build multiple Satellites. The initial cost for the first Satellite goes up, but the cost for subsequent Satellite's goes down in expense and space consumption. And attempting to use self-destruct on one Sat should trigger the self destruct on all of them.

Statistics: Posted by Vashon — 27 Sep 2015, 00:49

Re: The Novax

2015-09-26T19:40:40+02:00

Mycen wrote:
Wait, now you're saying this. ^^

But before you said this:
Apofenas wrote:Regen=/=recharge. However i checked what IceDreamer was talking about and it works. lol

So which is it? Properly microed, can they break through assisted shields, or not?

The way that IceDreamer described works. More or less. It's hard to make in general and new constructed t2 and mobile shields apearing will make it extremely hard to break through if even possible. Shield assist doesn't care about it in at all.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 26 Sep 2015, 19:40

Re: The Novax

2015-09-26T19:33:37+02:00

Wait, now you're saying this. ^^

But before you said this:

Apofenas wrote:
Regen=/=recharge. However i checked what IceDreamer was talking about and it works. lol

So which is it? Properly microed, can they break through assisted shields, or not?

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 26 Sep 2015, 19:33

Re: The Novax

2015-09-26T19:21:00+02:00

5 or 6 Novaxes?! If you can build this, you clearly give zero shits about air strikes, and you can murder any Experimental before it can cross a 5x5km map. That's 15k-18k damage per volley. You can completely lock down map control, and if the enemy has ASF superiority, you can deny the enemy all mass points outside his main base, and nothing outside and the most heavily fortified areas can resist this. UEF SCUs? Find power generators, and blap them-wait what?

30k damage per volley in a single strike. Yeah. Vs I'm guessing quite literally the heaviest shieding that is possible thanks to spacial limitations. Mmmh yeah struggle is the word

Good t3 shielding capable to defend from t3 arty and a bunch of mobile shields don't care much about 30k damage per voley.

At this point I'm just going to call you a liar. Point fucking blank. Post the replay. The math, outside of modded games, does not add up. That's enough Alpha damage to annihilate a Monkeylord instantly. It's enough to overkill 3 Sera T3 shields outright, at 69k damage per volley, that's enough to kill 3 Aeon t3 shields with 15k damage left over. It's nearly enough to kill FOUR Aeon T3 shields. That's popping a shield every volley, no matter what. That in fact should be enough to smash it's way through and just kill the Paragon itself, since synchronized or not, 3.75 Aeon T3 shields are falling every six seconds. In fact, selecting all the Sats and ordering a sequence of attacks on every shield immediately on the border of the Paragon results in no shields bordering the Paragon in under thirty seconds, and then a dead Paragon, and then a soon to be dead base.

Of course at the point where you can build 23 Novax Satellites, you can build more and more until you don't even give a f*** about an entire army of original SupCom Collosi bearing down on you, because it just doesn't matter anymore.

SCUs assisting shields make them insta regen any amount of damage(unless shields were taken down before SCUs started assisting them) with only one limit - amount of resources you can afford to waste into this and with paragon you have no limits. WIth it you wouldn't take even single shield out. Please make some sandbox shit so you know what you are talking about, noob.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 26 Sep 2015, 19:21

Re: The Novax

2015-09-26T16:04:58+02:00

briang wrote:
I don't see a reason to buff this unit. It works just fine. Many of you are qq'ing about how it is bad at things it isn't supposed to be good at. No, an invulnerable unit is not going to blast 3737484 shields and kill a base for the price of a fatty, UEF late game is more than good enough. Someone suggested giving it an EMP, why? It isn't supposed to kill mobile units and even if you gave it an EMP it would still be really bad at that...

thing is, its nearly impossible to put the power of 23 Fatboy's to use against other land Experimentals. But 23 Novax centers can be grouped up to fucking murder armies of other Land Experimentals. Even a Megalith wouldn't survive more than two volley's, and against say, a dozen Galactic Colossi, as soon as those Fatboy's run out room to run away they start dying fast enough to save the remaining Colossi. But 23 Sat's? You can cut that group in half to 11 Sats/12 Sats, and you would have about four to six Colossi a minute going down.

But what about the dreaded Percival horde?! A pack of 50 of them have an Alpha damage of 80k, and a health pool of 465k. Not so bad for Chickens with their massive splash damage, or some Colossi with their insta-kill hands, which means that several Percivals can and will die before they "reload". Megalith's and Monkeylord's have terrible issues with them, with no insta killing or super awesome splash. But the Novax?

23 sat's with 3000 damage shots do about 69k every 26 seconds. So it would take about 3 minutes of continuous fire to kill 50 Percival's. Which given how slow Percival's and Brick's are, isn't so bad. Actually, for the same Mass, you would be better off with a shitload of Titan's, they move fast enough to get to the enemy base before they all get slaughtered.

Let's be honest. Even just 5 Novax's Satellites are a brutal menace to any unit on land and a nasty addition to whatever damage your land forces kick out, and the best part? When you enemy decides to try and run away to conserve their forces, they are SOL. So if you do build these things, try to build about three of them in secret, then go after T3 Pgens and begin blapping them with your invincible and unstoppable murder machines. If you do it fast enough and right, you can bottleneck power, and then laugh at them. Forget mass, keep the power grid offline so the shields are useless.

Statistics: Posted by Vashon — 26 Sep 2015, 16:04

Re: The Novax

2015-09-26T15:27:15+02:00

5 or 6 Novaxes?! If you can build this, you clearly give zero shits about air strikes, and you can murder any Experimental before it can cross a 5x5km map. That's 15k-18k damage per volley. You can completely lock down map control, and if the enemy has ASF superiority, you can deny the enemy all mass points outside his main base, and nothing outside and the most heavily fortified areas can resist this. UEF SCUs? Find power generators, and blap them-wait what?

Apofenas wrote:
In my gaming experience i saw even 10+ sats

30k damage per volley in a single strike. Yeah. Vs I'm guessing quite literally the heaviest shieding that is possible thanks to spacial limitations. Mmmh yeah struggle is the word

struggling to break through heavy shielding. And 23 sats being completely useless against shield assist from paragon.
[spoiler]eventually guy with sats decided to crash

.....23 sats being useless.

At this point I'm just going to call you a liar. Point fucking blank. Post the replay. The math, outside of modded games, does not add up. That's enough Alpha damage to annihilate a Monkeylord instantly. It's enough to overkill 3 Sera T3 shields outright, at 69k damage per volley, that's enough to kill 3 Aeon t3 shields with 15k damage left over. It's nearly enough to kill FOUR Aeon T3 shields. That's popping a shield every volley, no matter what. That in fact should be enough to smash it's way through and just kill the Paragon itself, since synchronized or not, 3.75 Aeon T3 shields are falling every six seconds. In fact, selecting all the Sats and ordering a sequence of attacks on every shield immediately on the border of the Paragon results in no shields bordering the Paragon in under thirty seconds, and then a dead Paragon, and then a soon to be dead base.

Of course at the point where you can build 23 Novax Satellites, you can build more and more until you don't even give a f*** about an entire army of original SupCom Collosi bearing down on you, because it just doesn't matter anymore.

Statistics: Posted by Vashon — 26 Sep 2015, 15:27

Re: The Novax

2015-09-26T13:38:26+02:00

lol Keyser

Sat is little used on land or navy units, why not adding some EMP or stasis ?

Statistics: Posted by Mechsangoku — 26 Sep 2015, 13:38

Re: The Novax

2015-09-26T04:12:09+02:00

keyser wrote:
you just need to set it in no fire, and give move order.
you can use several at the same time, by setting no fire on each, move order + shift g, and ctrl k after waited so that they stabilize

Don't encourage this madness...

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 26 Sep 2015, 04:12

Re: The Novax

2015-09-25T22:14:35+02:00

you just need to set it in no fire, and give move order.
you can use several at the same time, by setting no fire on each, move order + shift g, and ctrl k after waited so that they stabilize

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 25 Sep 2015, 22:14