Forged Alliance Forever

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-10-19T22:47:50+02:00

I wholeheartedly disagree...

Raiding to me is a group (usually 5-8) units that break away from the main battles to stop the expansion and fortification of territory (think Open Palms, where even 2-3 mantis running amok are hell to deal with). If the t2/t3 mex is too difficult to kill why wouldn't people just make their expansion mexes the ones they upgrade versus the "home base?"

The cost of resources to upgrade and downtime of factories to produce units is too taxing to afford to lose it to a raid. At the t3 stage mexes are pretty easy to take down whether they are t2 or t3 structures...

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 19 Oct 2015, 22:47

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-10-18T19:10:26+02:00

mirroredwang wrote:
Would be fairly easy to implement in a mod right?

sure it would, but nobody would really play it, other than a few tests.

ironically you get more games by playing a larger mod instead. because it actually has some changes behind it rather than just one, and delivers a more complete experience.
since most people on the forums dont have anything but opinions to back them up, discussions like this often get nowhere

hope this helps (;

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 18 Oct 2015, 19:10

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-10-18T17:41:04+02:00

Uhh, bump? Why has discussion not continiued?

Would be fairly easy to implement in a mod right?

Statistics: Posted by mirroredwang — 18 Oct 2015, 17:41

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-19T03:19:56+02:00

Ok, I will move/delete all further stuff that's unrelated to the topic of this thread.
If you want to have this argument (again) it can be somewhere where it's actually supposed to be.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 19 Sep 2015, 03:19

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-19T02:55:19+02:00

Bad players don't annoy people, even people like briang, who I'm sure will forgive me using him as an example. Bad players who refuse to listen or learn annoy people.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 19 Sep 2015, 02:55

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-19T02:31:13+02:00

briang wrote:
KD when the response to all of your posting is overwhelming negative ALL THE TIME maybe it is time to think about giving it a rest for a while. There are people far nicer than I am who are twice as fed up.

I feel a little dirty agreeing with (ex)sentons 'person'... But honestly it's true.

Statistics: Posted by Ceneraii — 19 Sep 2015, 02:31

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-18T22:26:31+02:00

Mad`Mozart wrote:
KD7BCH wrote:However I firmly believe the reason T2 air is not seeing much gameplay is not because it is not effective, but because T3 air is not substantially harder to get than T2, ASFs fly much faster than T2 air and are much more lethal. A T2 air unit has no chance against ASFs as they exist in the current build. A swarm of 10 ASFs will effectively kill 25 T2 FBs or 70 T1 air units.

No, this is bullshite.

First, you are wrong assuming only current teamgame meta with dedicated air spot and land/navy spots. Game doesnt end there, seriously, there are also 1v1 and teamgames without dedicated air spots. Second, there is time frame for t2 air BEFORE t3 goes into play (and its way longer in games without can... dedicated air spot) but it still is not getting used much so your point is full crap and totally groundless.

Reason for that is that its easy to defend against so its not always cost effective. T2 flak, even t1 aa in numbers, dying like flies to intie swarms (gotta get air control first), concentrated eco (esp in team games), etc... And yes, mex HP reduction will surely make it more usable.

Im sorry you never see ASF swarms in 1v1 that's right. And ASFs in a swarm in 1v1 don't have the same unit characteristics that they do in the team games so you couldn't kill 70 interceptors with a dozen ASFs or about 25 FBs with 10 ASFs you are right Except we already made a video and replay showing exactly that.

Look I was talking about why I agree T2/T3 Mex reduction is good for the game. I was also stating an opinion based on the facts of the air game which are based on the replay and in depth testing we performed on the strength of ASFs. It was in response to Aulex's point that he thought that was going to be sovled they when they solve the air game, a mod we've been working on since at least February with concepts for whenever the hell guys on the balance team get around to it.

I'm not looking to discuss air here.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 18 Sep 2015, 22:26

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-19T04:22:52+02:00

KD7BCH wrote:
However I firmly believe the reason T2 air is not seeing much gameplay is not because it is not effective, but because T3 air is not substantially harder to get than T2, ASFs fly much faster than T2 air and are much more lethal. A T2 air unit has no chance against ASFs as they exist in the current build. A swarm of 10 ASFs will effectively kill 25 T2 FBs or 70 T1 air units.

No, this is bullshite.

First, you are wrong assuming only current teamgame meta with dedicated air spot and land/navy spots. Game doesnt end there, seriously, there are also 1v1 and teamgames without dedicated air spots. Second, there is time frame for t2 air BEFORE t3 goes into play (and its way longer in games without can... dedicated air spot) but it still is not getting used much so your point is full crap and totally groundless. Its like crying that t3 land dominates t2... well yeah, it does

Reason for that is that its easy to defend against so its not always cost effective. T2 flak, even t1 aa in numbers, dying like flies to intie swarms (gotta get air control first), concentrated eco (esp in team games), etc... And yes, mex HP reduction will surely make it more usable.

Statistics: Posted by Mad`Mozart — 18 Sep 2015, 19:45

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-18T19:31:22+02:00

Hm. I think this discussion about air should be moved back to korbah's thread.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 18 Sep 2015, 19:31

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-18T19:13:56+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Some of those changes are good, some are downright ugly. I could go for some of the FB changes, perhaps some of the flak.

Briang is right about the transports though, unnecessary and totally OTT buffs there. Broke Continental completely.

Most of the numbers seem arbitrary. Good balance won't be straight 1.5 multipliers all over the place, that's too simple.

Those 1.5 multiplayers were applied in the last FA patch and included in the mod to show the results. Since you nor Briang have never played the mod...

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 18 Sep 2015, 19:13

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-18T18:02:08+02:00

Some of those changes are good, some are downright ugly. I could go for some of the FB changes, perhaps some of the flak.

Briang is right about the transports though, unnecessary and totally OTT buffs there. Broke Continental completely.

Most of the numbers seem arbitrary. Good balance won't be straight 1.5 multipliers all over the place, that's too simple.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 18 Sep 2015, 18:02

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-18T17:51:34+02:00

briang wrote:
T2 air: click a factory upgrade and wait 1 minute. maybe 1 T2 pgen
T3 air: get t2 air make 2+ t2 pgen get ras then upgrade factory

A whole lot of nothing has gone into that mod. All that mod does is makw transports insanely OP.

A. TYPICAL BRIANG POST
B. YOU ARE WRONG
C. YEAH-BECAUSE TRANSPORTS ARE SOOOOO OP

Knowledge is half the battle Briang, the rest is red lasers and blue lasers, in your case pink.

V4 changes

Korbah: UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Max Air Speed -> 15 to 17
Korbah: UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Min Air Speed -> 10 to 12
Korbah: Aeon Swiftwing Air Speed -> 18 to 17
Korbah: Aeon Swiftwing TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 2
Korbah: UEF t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.25
Korbah: Sera t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.1
Korbah: Cybran t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1
Korbah: Stationary t2 aa Built time reduced to 75%
Korbah: Aeon Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 30 to 34
Korbah: UEF Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32
Korbah: Cybran Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 20 to 28
Korbah: Seraphim Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32
Korbah: T2 (only) Transport Speed -> 15 to 17
Korbah: T2/3 Transport HP -> +60% HP
Korbah: T2/3 Transport Cost -> x2 Mass and Energy, +60% build timer
Korbah: T3 ASF Cost -> +150 Mass (350 -> 500)
Korbah: T3 ASF Cost -> +50% build timer (3000 -> 4500)
Korbah: T3 ASF Speed -> -2 (25 -> 23)
Korbah: T2 MAA -> Flak AoE all races -1 (4 -> 3)
Korbah: T2 MAA -> x2 energy cost (800 -> 1600)
Korbah: Experimental Build Timer Changes:
Korbah: Monkeylord -> x2 build timer
Korbah: Soulripper -> x1.5 build timer
Korbah: Megalith -> x2.1 build timer
Korbah: Fatboy -> x1.8 build timer
Korbah: Galatic Colossus -> x1.8 build timer
Korbah: Ythotha -> x1.9 build timer
Korbah: Tempest -> x1.5 build timer
Korbah: Atlantis -> x1.5 build timer

In addition to 19 pages of discussion and a dozen or so replays of how it plays, not radically different than stock but with more T2 air involvement which is what the OP indicated in part would be a result of weaker T2/T3 mexes.

Anyway never mind the 500 pages of threads discussing ASF swarms dating back 5 years in FA, must have been a topic that never came up right?

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 18 Sep 2015, 17:51

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-18T16:46:15+02:00

Aulex wrote:
briang wrote:I agree that this would only promote more aggression slightly. Will be a massive buff for cybran strat though

I feel like when they rework t3 air, this will be accounted for.

You mean when hell freezes lol jk.

Agree with the T2/T3 mex hp reduction. Making these targets softer would make T2 air/land more effective.

However I firmly believe the reason T2 air is not seeing much gameplay is not because it is not effective, but because T3 air is not substantially harder to get than T2, ASFs fly much faster than T2 air and are much more lethal. A T2 air unit has no chance against ASFs as they exist in the current build. A swarm of 10 ASFs will effectively kill 25 T2 FBs or 70 T1 air units.

A lot of solid mod work has gone into finding a better place for ASFs in Korbah's Air Leverage Mod V4.

Other points made, which are accurate, some of the T2 FBs suck pretty bad in that they can't hit a target reliably or don't drop on the first pass.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 18 Sep 2015, 16:46

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-18T01:13:08+02:00

briang wrote:
I agree that this would only promote more aggression slightly. Will be a massive buff for cybran strat though

I feel like when they rework t3 air, this will be accounted for.

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 18 Sep 2015, 01:13

Re: T2/T3 Mex HP

2015-09-17T00:48:45+02:00

I like this idea. I like this idea a lot

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 17 Sep 2015, 00:48