Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T21:12:29+02:00

TheKoopa wrote:
I suggested a different way to get the unit to hit more: buff gatling velocity.

this is the problem, that you was not reading

IT DOESNT WORK
that unit have in blue print parameter that determite how much/less unit will miss -> how big/low firing randomnes will have.
And instead of changing this parameter, you want change some other that determine how fast will projectile go from place A to place B when place B is somewhere else as is your target, becasue previous parameter say that it will not hit properly, when dont change the previous one, muzzle is absoluth pointless.

It can have 700muzzle velocity and will miss same as now. becasue it have firing randomnes on same value.

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when it have low firing randomnes, and more muzzle,(muzzle isnt problem, dont need be changed) it still miss because gattling is not continues beam but multiple projectile with some delay (i gues its 0,2s) this is reason why it also need some aoe (same as have ravenger)

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when mongoose hit properly, and nothing else except miss will not be changed. then its mongoos hilerious OP unit.

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I know it, because i was fix miss isue (half year before this discusion), and i was test it. And it is OP. Yes someone will say that no no it cant be ok becasue XYZ.. But that one will know shit, becasue he dont see it, he dont test it, he is only guessing and at all have no clue.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 27 Oct 2015, 21:12

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T20:00:00+02:00

its sad to say, but you all are wrong. Why i describe UP-per.
Its ignored, its not about balance its about how (technical) that unti work. all your suggestion are goin on bad direction, because ignore how that unit work.

Err, I suggested a different way to get the unit to hit more: buff gatling velocity.

If that happens I suggested a slight mass cost increase because units that don't miss and have superior range are OP (think sera destroyer that has Salem range).

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 27 Oct 2015, 20:00

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T19:48:58+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
its sad to say, but you all are wrong. Why i describe UP-per.
Its ignored, its not about balance its about how (technical) that unti work. all your suggestion are goin on bad direction, because ignore how that unit work.

I didn't read your previous posts but I can honestly not understand what you are trying to say here...

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 27 Oct 2015, 19:48

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T19:47:53+02:00

walking and shooting? what else should it do bake cookies? Everybody simply offered 10 different useless ways how to make it stronger. Zock will ignore all of them and find another way so np

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 27 Oct 2015, 19:47

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T19:45:46+02:00

its sad to say, but you all are wrong. Why i describe UP-per.
Its ignored, its not about balance its about how (technical) that unti work. all your suggestion are goin on bad direction, because ignore how that unit work.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 27 Oct 2015, 19:45

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T16:00:14+02:00

The answer here is quite obvious. Make the gatling gun shoot at a faster velocity but increase mass cost by a bit (maybe 20-30).

If you're trying to kill an ACU with anything besides far more units or your own ACU, you will lose. This is true for all units until a decent amount of T3.

All of these people saying that "ACU kills this, ACU kills that," it's basic micro to not engage a gun ACU without what I mentioned above.

The (somewhat) exception is Aeon double-gun comm, but then that's in only one place and Aeon's answer to range bots. But then, the only counters to a range comm is either an air snipe or T2 PD (random thought....what if their MML is shit because of this?).

IMO hoplite could use a slight velocity buff as well, it's too easy to dodge their fire.

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 27 Oct 2015, 16:00

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T15:18:56+02:00

Maybe thats the main difference, hopplite has bigger range and it is possible to micro them under stealth. Mongoose are dead if enemy gets gun. They are with 34 range hardly over the range 30 from t1 arti. Forget to move them 1 sec and they will be hit by t1 arti. Hopplite has 37 range. Not much but still a big difference it is double over the range of t1 arti. Maybe just add 3 range to mongoose? i dont see a big problem in the accuracy it should be not to good. ACU gun has 22 range and upgraded 30(35 aeon). to make mongoose not to instant kill for acu with gun like all other t2 units your need either cheaper shields (75e) or more range. Hp buff is useless and shields could be also used for t1 spam and tanks. Since the range increase is so small i would not change the muzzle velocity or anything else then. for me range sounds like a solution.

mongoose -> 37 range

my question now is what will happen if hopplite will meet mongoose with 37 range? will it be op? you can dance arround the miniguns and the miniguns have this terrible start delay. But the grenades will hit very uncomfortable and you can shield them sooner or later what cybran cant do.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 27 Oct 2015, 15:18

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T14:20:30+02:00

I remember getting my ass kicked by hoplites more than once. Although they require a lot of micro you can make them useful in the right situation. (Mostly 5x5 maps)

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 27 Oct 2015, 14:20

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T14:12:44+02:00

arent they the same underused like mongoose? but you could be right that i didnt watch close enough. I dont play cybran but mongoose i know perfectly well even in 1v1 i won a nice game on comet catcher directly rushing mongoose after 3 t1 tanks. They are nice the biggest problem is the fire delay which is preventing a nice focus fire and the small range needs more life. A simple buff to improve in general t2 uef would be to reduce e cost of t2 shields like aeon as well to 75e. then there is no need to do anything about mongoose. they have already less life cannot swim thats enough faction difference. uef t2 is weak compared to others in general so they could shield at least a bit. Cannot imagine it would be op since aeon is not op as well with obsidian tanks and aurora under those t2 shields.

But this fire delay is still a pain ......

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 27 Oct 2015, 14:12

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T14:02:41+02:00

Iszh wrote:
I think to make mongoose and hopplite stronger ...

Who said anything about making hoplites stronger?

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 27 Oct 2015, 14:02

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-27T10:42:40+02:00

I think to make mongoose and hopplite stronger there are more or less easy ways. Damage and range seem to be ok if you dont want to make them another op problem child so simply remove the mega disadvantages.

Increase hp for both +250
Remove friendy fire damage for both
Remove the fire delay shit from mongoose

Thats one of the biggest mongoose problems even worse than the low life and friendly fire atm. They have an animation for turning the barrel and it needs time. If you attack acu or whatever directly they stop and start to turn the barrel again ... 1-2 secs no damage thats a long time of waiting. Hopplite dont have this.

Those mini changes would make them a proper unit to use in game.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 27 Oct 2015, 10:42

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-26T23:11:04+02:00

I guess it was probably just a crappy matchup on Cobalt Valley where the slow Aurora can't respond to hasty attacks as well.

On a map like Syrtis where there are more closed quarters it would likely be a different story.

Good suggestions, though.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 26 Oct 2015, 23:11

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-23T18:18:39+02:00

They are significantly worse than other units, though.

Against them as aeon, go ahead and make guncom and easily swat them. Aeon bombers do wonders too, since they stun.

Just remember not to *just* make aurora vs them, - of course you are going to lose if you send a unit vs a counter to it. Shield auroras, use guncom to tank damage and kill, obsidians will wipe out any pillars that try to advance, etc.

Remember that you don't really have to make that many units at start, either. If you know they're going to make t2 land, you don't have to make that many t1 units. They will basically have none, so the few aurora you make at the start will easily suffice, and you can then make whatever you need to counter.

Added to that you can make air easier, since you don't need as much land invest.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 23 Oct 2015, 18:18

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-23T17:22:25+02:00

Mmmmm.... I had a game where someone rushed t2 UEF against Aeon and I had a hell of time controlling them once there were about 10 on the field. Between bomb raids that caught me off-guard and their advance aurora packs stood no chance. I tried getting Obsidians into the mix but each one i got was needed asap and would fall.

They're not useless. They just require good micro of units which is difficult when playing a map like Cobalt Valley where you need to pay attention to multiple flanks.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 23 Oct 2015, 17:22

Re: Mongoose

2015-10-23T02:50:04+02:00

Iszh wrote:
Mongoose are as well a nightmare to deal with, but for the owner

made my day :D

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 23 Oct 2015, 02:50