Forged Alliance Forever

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-20T12:38:42+02:00

Aeon tmd have to be played the exact opposite way as all other tmds: close to the target you need to protect.

It has pro and cons.

Pro:
Deflect all at once
Deflects Cybrans and all over 2HP tmls (com tmls)
Deflects billy

Cons:
HP
Limited deflexion radius

Overall, i think the aeon tmd is weaker then most others now that the com tml was rendered useless.

It's probably the worse TDM against MML and cuisers and you can even go thought it with 2 tml using a delay combination

IMHO, it's part of the game mecanics and overal balance

Statistics: Posted by Mechsangoku — 20 Aug 2015, 12:38

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-17T19:40:27+02:00

Fantastic set of tests Deimos! it interesting to see the difference of each tmd, and that even demonstrates or justifies the UEF TMD's shortcomings.

But to the Aeon TMD, I will certainly take note where I need to place it, and perhaps if anyone did want to balance this, perhaps it is just the area of effect of the actual 'flare' as you call it... As it is clear that those rockets are attracted to it, esp when looking at it side on, rather than top down, and if the aoa was larger to anything perpendicular to it, this would solve the problem and not add anymore side-effects there after.

Alternatively can just make tmd cheaper on mass and build time so aeon players will just make more tmd and not suffer as much as they do now.

Well I had no idea they were so weak at 500 hp... But it will probably take a bit of work making a good balance(if they were made cheaper) ,as shown by those 10 or so t2 mobile rocket launchers on Deimo's first replay, Aeon TMD is pretty effective as oppose to that t2 UEF one which had to fire twice before one TML rocket was neutralised.

Statistics: Posted by cmfrip — 17 Aug 2015, 19:40

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-17T18:56:26+02:00

TMD must be a lot better than long range TML on all maps.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 17 Aug 2015, 18:56

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-17T17:32:32+02:00

pza wrote:
also, it is in the nature of gap of rohan, that TMLs are so strong. It's way harder to kill a TML base than in any other map i can think of. So just play a different map and you're good.

If only 7/10 games weren't Gap.

Statistics: Posted by Misaniovent — 17 Aug 2015, 17:32

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-16T18:33:26+02:00

DeimosEvotec wrote:
Here is another replay showing inconsistent behavior of missiles and flares:

I have not seen replay but i can't think what can be inconsistent there.
I think aeon tmd just consistently sucks
I can list pretty much all possible scenarios:
Good: any amount of missiles coming with relatively high arc trajectory, and they all curve around flare without hitting it, and cause of high arc, even if flare is on top, it still affects all missiles.
Bad: missile hits and kills flare too soon so next missiles pass trought, or missiles curve in a way that they still hit target (often tall targets and shield fields)
Or missile is going in not high arc and when flare is on top it does not affect missiles so they hit tmd or targets in front of it while tmd reloads.

Maybe attraction range could be slightly increased ( making it cylindric does count) and tmd would fire a flare instantly after prevous flare died or similar buff...

Edit: hp is also a problem, tmd gets killed very easily.

Flare could fly slower and not so high, and not die on collision, that would preemtively :s
Also if flare could be launched preemtively

Alternatively can just make tmd cheaper on mass and build time so aeon players will just make more tmd and not suffer as much as they do now.

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 16 Aug 2015, 18:33

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-16T17:13:53+02:00

Here is another replay showing inconsistent behavior of missiles and flares:

Statistics: Posted by DeimosEvotec — 16 Aug 2015, 17:13

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-16T17:04:06+02:00

Zock wrote:
There goes the idea of making it cylindric instead of spherical to fix it

You'd just want to make the projectile effective zone a cylinder, instead of the firing range of the launcher.

Statistics: Posted by ckitching — 16 Aug 2015, 17:04

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-16T16:58:28+02:00

There goes the idea of making it cylindric instead of spherical to fix it

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 16 Aug 2015, 16:58

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-16T17:22:25+02:00

Okay so I did some test because I was interrested how much height affects tmds and came to some interresting observations:
Tmd engagement range is not spherical but cylindric which causes tmd to fire even if the tm is way above their engagemant range radius. Every tmd besides aeon is actualy able to even shoot down these missiles regardles of height. Only aeon is totaly gimped because of the flares slow ascension speed, they can also take down missiles above their radius but it's way more limited and even then the behavior of the missiles and the flares is inconsistend.
Like the missile being redirected later, the missile disappearing without hitting the flare, or the flare disappearing before reaching maximum height without getting hit by a missile.

Edit: But on a sidenote it's really cool to see tmds take down missiles that nearly fly as high as nukes.

Statistics: Posted by DeimosEvotec — 16 Aug 2015, 16:52

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-16T02:40:08+02:00

you don't need to protect everything. Only key target : T2 mexx, T2 pgen, HQ mainly.
T2/T3 assist factory too.

I ahve lots of each of there, i.e. roahn ahs about 10 mexes (?) so does that mean I have to place 10 TMD just to give basic defence??

in team game, you gonna need maybe 1-2 more tmd

This is my point, in this game was the other races, yes, minimum, however, as aeon worrying about the altitude problem, I *should have 8 -10 tmd?

the nature of gap of rohan, that TMLs are so strong. It's way harder to kill a TML base than in any other map

Well its a turtle map , but still strategies around it... With effective tmd, it is possible to defend and counter

So just play a different map and you're good.

hmm, ok I will let everyone else read that and make their own oppinions, I don't think it means anything and you have written no evidence to me that you thought about your answer...

try scare t3 arty away with shielded com.

I have done this with a Sera ACU many times with 50k hp, and been hit very hard... often cos I was a little insensitive to threats... everytime I dieded... Once I had a Aeon sheild and the energy to power it and found it meant nothing to a hand full of corsars - Bombing is probably the most frequent way of dying o this map, I would suggest....

Statistics: Posted by cmfrip — 16 Aug 2015, 02:40

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-15T16:25:44+02:00

ZLO_RD wrote:
ZeRen wrote:
BattleMoose wrote:I would swop my UEF TMD for Aeon TMD? They are different but I would absolutely prefer the aeon tmd. Viper spam on uef is bad!

well, UEF com can spam shield so fast that you need army of Vipers, especially against T3 com (well then viper is useless because ravenger has OP range, and then you have to use T3M arty)

Any com can, and best wold be aeon, not uef, uef shields suck (maybe they recharge faster but not sure).... But alternatevely you have option to get gun+t2 and scare vipers away, later to try scare t3 arty away with shielded com...

Spamming shields against vipers will work, but it is very cost of ineffective

Aeon tmd is probably worst one, can't always stop mmls, need to build alot agains TML, and only has 500 hp so can be easily sniped by t1 bombers or lucky t1 arty shots when they push at your position.

And yes it does not always stop missiles that fly very high, tmd may shoot but it projectile flyes up quite slow so missile may pass trought... Not sure, maybe we could increase firing tolerance or range, with projectile speed and lifetime or range.of attraction and stuff like that...

not really aeon T2 shield sucks, because cover nothing (like cyb's ED1), and on T3 UEF has revenger, and revenger creep (very strong on wonder) can be stoped only with a lot of T3 m. arty

once I saw Aeon TMD die during deflecting tac.missile= missile exploded above TMD

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 15 Aug 2015, 16:25

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-15T15:59:23+02:00

also, it is in the nature of gap of rohan, that TMLs are so strong. It's way harder to kill a TML base than in any other map i can think of. So just play a different map and you're good.

Statistics: Posted by pza — 15 Aug 2015, 15:59

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-15T13:44:24+02:00

you don't need to protect everything. Only key target : T2 mexx, T2 pgen, HQ mainly.
T2/T3 assist factory too.
you can't choose where you build your mexx. But you can get your pgen and HQ where mexx are, and then reduce the number of tmd needed.
in team game, you gonna need maybe 1-2 more tmd. But you won't need to build more if the number of tml opponent build is higher.
in 1v1 you gonna have to build maybe more depending, on how big the map is, and the mexx repartition.

no need to fix that.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 15 Aug 2015, 13:44

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-15T13:17:39+02:00

I will add to this that I'm still not really satisfied, so will bring to the table with the people who are balance testing.. afterall, aeon tmd can kill multiple rockets at same time ( can damage shields),but is slow, whereas the other kill one-by-one in quick succession... There doesn't seem to be any reason to handicap that aeon tmd in view of that imho

The problem I have with placing tmd next to everything or what I want to protect (i.e. Everything) is that it is not only a waste of time, but a waste of mass. But the time i protected my self from tml 100%, I could have built a GC xD

Some rohan games, like this one have many people making tml early, so how can I protect myself against such an adversary, when they build 1 and I have to build 50

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm just saying this requires a little more discussion

Statistics: Posted by cmfrip — 15 Aug 2015, 13:17

Re: AEON TMD rendered ineffective by High altitude Tac missi

2015-08-15T13:02:58+02:00

It sounds like everyone thinks that this is ok and it will remain the same... I guess it is a unique position to be in, at the height... But How does that justify me placing tmd everywhere I define as my base?

I guess I could do with tweaking my base building so that it is better condensed, but it means that if someone gets that point(on the hill), then an aeon player has to put TMD not only on the frontier , but at EVERY sq block within their base... I don't think this makes sense, and I only would jusifty a plan like this if I was paranoid , about what was mentioned about t1 bomber/ t1 arty hitting my position...

I guess I wiil have to deal with it, and certainly be a little more aggressive next time someone takes that hill... Gap of Genesis seems to have the dynamic more where a a player takes the hill to turle and make creep into someone's base, but I never considered rohan to have that mechanic

Thanks for responses

Statistics: Posted by cmfrip — 15 Aug 2015, 13:02