Forged Alliance Forever

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-26T05:50:43+02:00

defending does not = not using
tldr

Statistics: Posted by biass — 26 Aug 2016, 05:50

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-26T04:13:36+02:00

biass wrote:
if you make tanks instead of mass extractors, you better make sure you're using the tanks, or you just wasted mass

Almost. When it comes to making military units it is worthwhile to consider the real world examples. Because, all countries today are continually making military hardware all the time - and most of it is never used. The reason why they are doing this is to PREVENT conflict... Because, the cost of appearing weak is that someone will take advantage and engage you in a shooting war - which requires a massive investment in hardware and loss of life. Investing in military units, and not using them, is cheaper than fighting a war.

Of course in an XvX game this is not quite so relevant. Because, it is already given that you are fighting a shooting war. The main advantage in stockpiling and not using your units is as a show of strength - and this works as a 'behaviour modifier'. So while it is expensive to make units, they are worthwhile if the consequence of not having them is that you are attacked and killed.

Of course, you also need to consider the reclaim (those smouldering black wrecks). If you use your units and attack - then you are putting the reclaim on your opponents side of the map - and this means that you should be attacking EFFECTIVELY. The value of what you are destroying MUST be greater than the units which you send to do the job... If you make the units and sit them at home. You get to keep the reclaim for yourself, and sometimes this is the better course of action.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 26 Aug 2016, 04:13

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-25T20:47:07+02:00

biass wrote:
if you make tanks instead of mass extractors, you better make sure you're using the tanks, or you just wasted mass

I would say that this also "depends" and is situational. Your tanks should always be on the move because unlike real world tanks, they have no need to refuel, but even so, there is a time for stockpiling and a time for attacking. Decisive and cost effective engagements rely on concentration of firepower and outnumbering the enemy, or outmaneuvring them, or rock paper scissoring them. If you are a better microer than your opponent, you can probably afford a more piecemeal approach, but only if your opponent sucks at eco,reclaim and defensive play. If not, you would be feeding him mass while he builds up his offensive by keeping his shit out of combat.

Statistics: Posted by RocketRooster — 25 Aug 2016, 20:47

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-25T17:30:59+02:00

Thank you for your replies. Sounds like I need to scout more then react to what my opponents are doing

Statistics: Posted by nedisalegend — 25 Aug 2016, 17:30

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-25T03:31:46+02:00

lextoc wrote:
If you believe you can upgrade a mass extractor without losing ground or making a loss on the battlefield, that'd be the appropriate time.

Hey! You just said the same thing as I did... Only you used less words.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 25 Aug 2016, 03:31

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-24T14:33:34+02:00

In canis 4v4 team games some players, including me, often start their first t2 mex upgraide before starting second factory.(after hydro you make pgens, and star upgraide as soon as you have power for it)
Works for other maps with ton of early reclaim.

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 24 Aug 2016, 14:33

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-24T10:42:20+02:00

If you believe you can upgrade a mass extractor without losing ground or making a loss on the battlefield, that'd be the appropriate time.

Statistics: Posted by lextoc — 24 Aug 2016, 10:42

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-24T10:10:48+02:00

if you make tanks instead of mass extractors, you better make sure you're using the tanks, or you just wasted mass

Statistics: Posted by biass — 24 Aug 2016, 10:10

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-24T06:32:21+02:00

There is no simple answer. But essentially, your resources can be invested in one of three different ways.

1. Making more combat units.
2. Developing facilities to make higher tech units.
3. Investing in resources (upgrading mass extractors and building power).

In addition to these you should always aim to:
1. Utilise all of your mass
2. Have enough power to keep everything running.

So investing in combat units is basically what will keep you safe now. If your opponent is likely to overpower you in the very near future then you cannot afford to upgrade your mass. You should be making more units.

If however, you are not in any danger, then you should divert your resources into mass extractor upgrades. Upgrading your resources is a trade off. It will weaken your forces now; but will make you stronger later. So the longer a game is likely to go on the more important it is to be upgrading your mass.

The most critical thing to get right is the transition from T1 to T2 mexes. Especially your first one. Upgrading a mex to T2 is the equivalent cost of 20 T1 tanks, it has a payback time of 4 minutes, and it is equivalent to adding another 2 T1 mexes. So the time you should be upgrading a mex to T2 is when:

1. You can afford not to have 20 tanks on the battlefield;
2. You are not likely to be in battle for the next 4 minutes; or
3. You cannot easily aquire another two T1 mexes by increasing map control.

Speed's advice above is good. You should be scouting your opponent to see what their level of mass upgrades is, and should aim to match it. Though, this could also be a mistake. For instance, if you scout and see a lot of mass upgrades your opponent could be making themselves vulnerable. Sometimes a better response is to make even more units, press the advantage, and win the game before your enemies economy is effective... If you can score critical victories before your opponents economic payback time, then you will be ahead - you might even destroy that economy.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 24 Aug 2016, 06:32

Re: How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-24T06:22:14+02:00

At least as fast as your opponent. Scout and if you see you are behind, upgrade

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 24 Aug 2016, 06:22

How quickly should I upgrade mass extractors?

2016-08-24T05:32:28+02:00

I am having trouble keeping up with other players economies. I think I must not be getting the balance between building units & upgrading mass extractors right. It's just that the T1 units look so cheap in comparison to mass extractor upgrades. How quickly do you upgrade your mass extractors?

Statistics: Posted by nedisalegend — 24 Aug 2016, 05:32