Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2016-02-07T22:40:22+02:00

keyser wrote:
I stoped reading after that "I don't use them for anything except possibly an early snipe for an easy AI."
but it's true that i could have stop after "I bet that 20 percivals will win against 30 mongoose with 10 shields."

WEll, when I said 20 Percies, I wrote an overkill. I stand corrected. But still, about an "early snipe" I will not change anything.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 07 Feb 2016, 22:40

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2016-02-02T19:56:24+02:00

Be a little nicer please, keyser

Statistics: Posted by TheKoopa — 02 Feb 2016, 19:56

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2016-02-02T12:43:03+02:00

I stoped reading after that "I don't use them for anything except possibly an early snipe for an easy AI."
but it's true that i could have stop after "I bet that 20 percivals will win against 30 mongoose with 10 shields."

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 02 Feb 2016, 12:43

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2016-02-02T12:43:35+02:00

I bet that 20 percivals will win against 30 mongoose with 10 shields.

Would be a shame if not... just compare the numbers:

Perci:
1280 mass
9600 HP
35 Range
400 DPS

Mongnose:
200 mass
650 HP
34 Range
56 DPS

T2 Shield:
120 Mass
4000 additional HP

So ...
20x 1280 = 25600 Mass
20x 9600 = 192000 HP
20x 400 DPS = 8000 DPS
Vs:
30x 200 +10x 120 = 6000 + 1200 = 7400 Mass
30x 650 + 10x4000 = 19500 + 40000 = 59500 HP
30x 56 DPS = 1680 DPS

Are you really expecting a bunch of T2 Units to win against a group of T3 Units costing more than 3 times the mass having nearly 4 times the HP and circa 6 times the DPS with even 1 more Range? Neither included the costs for a T3 Factory upgrade nor the costs of the power nessessary to build those units.

Statistics: Posted by JenZor — 02 Feb 2016, 12:38

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2016-02-07T22:38:04+02:00

anton wrote:
So, my question is how do counter Mongoose and para shield spam, assuming I keep air contested with large number of T1 fighters? This combo is the reason I started playing UEF lately, and it has not failed me once I have a few T2 factories. Mongoose can cut down huge numbers of T1 units (even though, yes, granted they over kill and are not THE most effective unit vs T1), they can kite anything T2 except for Hoplites, but even then parashields keep Mongoose alive well enough for them to confront the enemy army and march forward to destroy Hoplites, and if enemy pushes for T3 they can cut down their heavy bots before they even have a chance to engage. Only T3 things to worry about are arty and snipers, but even then I generally have enough Mongoose to just march them forward and either chase down snipers/arty or at least cause huge damage to infrastructure. So, how do you counter them? Kind of just curious... and want to know what to watch out for

Like Vee said, Mongoose are not the best units. I bet that 10 percivals will win against 30 mongoose with 10 shields. Just because Percivals are too strong. Also, what would you do against 10 T3 arty positioned on a hill? Nada, because mongoose are bad at that stuff. I don't use them for anything except possibly an early snipe for an easy AI. To me, their 650 health is ridiculously weak against the 1200 health of T2 Pillars, which I use extensively on every map where I can get a chance to make them.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 02 Feb 2016, 04:06

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-09-18T08:07:59+02:00

codepants wrote:
quark036 wrote:Well, t3 arty is almost specifically meant to kill bases through shields, so you probably shouldn't be able to outshield them.
Thinking about what I said, I take it back. A t3 shield costs only 3,000 mass. A heavy arty about 90,000. So mass for mass you should need 30 shields to counter a heavy arty. Unless mass costs change I think I'm fine with things the way they are.

Well, you can easily counter even scathis with some shield micro. You just need a T3 + about 6 t2 shield to cover a smaller area. You keep 2x t2 shields deactvited 2 shields are beeing charged and two are active. The 2 shields that finish to charge get deactvated and the deactivated get activated ... thats like a cycle. and some times the t3 shield is kicking in. With a second arty firing or t3 bombers it gets a bit more micro intensive and you need at least 2 more t3 shields to be save so you can cycle them also. It also depends on faction how manyx shields you need. With aeon to cover your acu you need less shields to cover your basic infrastructure more t3 shields because the bubbles are so small. While seraphim has best t2 shield, so you would build more t2 shields and upgrade when needed.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 18 Sep 2015, 08:07

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-08-17T19:54:02+02:00

quark036 wrote:
Well, t3 arty is almost specifically meant to kill bases through shields, so you probably shouldn't be able to outshield them.

Thinking about what I said, I take it back. A t3 shield costs only 3,000 mass. A heavy arty about 90,000. So mass for mass you should need 30 shields to counter a heavy arty. Unless mass costs change I think I'm fine with things the way they are.

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 17 Aug 2015, 19:54

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-06-26T16:44:06+02:00

Well, t3 arty is almost specifically meant to kill bases through shields, so you probably shouldn't be able to outshield them.

Statistics: Posted by quark036 — 26 Jun 2015, 16:44

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-06-26T15:35:15+02:00

I mean, I think shield balancing needs some work. Sometimes it seems like shields collapse too easily. As it stands if you get up a t3 arty you usually win, because it's basically impossible to out-shield one of those things. But I agree that shields should not be unbeatable.

That being said, I think shield balance is pretty good and if I had to choose between them being "too breakable" or "too unbreakable," I would choose the former, because that sounds more fun.

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 26 Jun 2015, 15:35

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-06-26T12:26:51+02:00

it used to be that shields were very op, especially mobile shields, when you stack them. before you would see 300 shields on navy and such, and ahwassa would not even dent them. this is why they now deal extra damage to nearby shields. to prevent this unbeatable shield stacking.

your proposal makes 0 extra damage and stacking shields means that it takes even longer to collapse the first one. not sure this is a good idea, i think this way it will be very similar to what i describe above.

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 26 Jun 2015, 12:26

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-06-26T03:33:05+02:00

zeroAPM wrote:
If static then a shield hit by, let's say, a 100 damage shot will take 100 damage AND every shield that touches it takes 15 damage.

This doesn't seem right. Let's say each shield has 100 health. Then for every 7 shields you build touching each other you only get 6?

I'm not saying that's not the way it is, I'm wondering if that's the way it should be. It seems like a 100 damage shot should be, say, 50 on the sheild it hits, and 25 on two adjacent shields.

Why does investing mass make the mass you invest less valuable?

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 26 Jun 2015, 03:33

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-05-03T23:41:35+02:00

Neat

Statistics: Posted by KrogothFTW — 03 May 2015, 23:41

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-05-03T13:21:11+02:00

KrogothFTW wrote:
What's shield feedback? Area effect damage multiplied by number of shields it hits simultaneously?

Depends, static or mobile?

If static then a shield hit by, let's say, a 100 damage shot will take 100 damage AND every shield that touches it takes 15 damage.
If mobile then the same only that the adjacent shields take 50

Why the difference? Because everyone hates the UEF Bulwark apparently

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 03 May 2015, 13:21

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-05-02T23:15:16+02:00

What's shield feedback? Area effect damage multiplied by number of shields it hits simultaneously?

Statistics: Posted by KrogothFTW — 02 May 2015, 23:15

Re: Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

2015-04-15T23:07:33+02:00

I don't encounter mongoose spam very often but when I do I don't usually have too much trouble with it.

1) As aeon I just go range gun com and auroras with shields or t3.

2) No matter what race, I just have a couple of air factories spam T1 bombers which I send in when I push with my land units to take down shields and make my opponent mico or lose bots. This is especially effective with Aeon because of the EMP effect which stops the mongoose from running away.

Sometimes dropping a couple of units behind your opponent's units can help to trap their units and allow you to kill them.

Statistics: Posted by Nemesis — 15 Apr 2015, 23:07