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Skriker wrote:
Hi...
I also suck against turtling players. I bump into this guy quite a lot and he just sits in his base turtling... How do i batter down his eco before he gets t3 air? And also, what mod is he using? It seems to give him a big advantage
Hi...
I also suck against turtling players. I bump into this guy quite a lot and he just sits in his base turtling... How do i batter down his eco before he gets t3 air? And also, what mod is he using? It seems to give him a big advantage
I actually made a 7 step how to win vs turtle guide:
How to win in the future?
Step 0 : Recognise that your opponent is a turtle and stop most unit production. (Switch to engies if you don't have many)
Step 1 : eco so hard that he can't possibly catch up (make sure to keep enough mobile units so he can't counter attack, not PD!!!)
Step 2 : Don't attack ever unless for the killing blow (cause the reclaim you leave will keep your opponent in the game)
Step 3 : Make sure you know everything he's doing at all times. (he controls only a small part of the map so you only need to look at that specific spot)
Step 4 : Get air control so you can't get sniped no matter what. Get t3 air when your eco allows it.
Step 5 : Once your eco is miles ahead of his you decide how you'll win: T3 land push, T4, T3 air snipe.
Step 6 : Win because your opponent can never survive your attack with the eco advantage you have.
If you don't have the patience/time for the eco and just want to kill him fast, then you need units that are great vs buildings : artillery and mml.
Be aware that this can be very risky and if done bad you could just have suicided and lost.
Attacking the turtle base is exactly what the turtle player wants, since he wants you to feed him reclaim.
So the actual winning strategy is not to attack, then all the pd and shields he build will just be wasted mass.
In your game everything went fairly well and even great until he got t3 gunships and killed all your stuff.
Now he had t3 air for a fairly long time before that happened, but you were in no way prepared to counter them.
This was mostly due to you not scouting his base at all. (step 3)
At the start you even made a dozen useless interceptors cause you didn't know that he didn't have any air.
So in the future always scout opponent base. You usually do this with 1st/2nd or 3rd unit from air factory being a scout that goes to opponent base.
If your opponent has t3 air, then you need to get t3 air yourself asap. There is no way around it.
General rule of thumb: always have same or higher tech level. (t2 air is an exception since t1 is fine vs t2.)
So instead of the super expensive t3 navy, you should've gotten t3 air yourself, and claimed air control. (see step 4)
Also you tried to do win with t3 navy (step 5-6), but you skipped step 1. And step 1 is crucial for all following steps.
Not getting an eco advantage loses you the game almost always.
Also don't get both t3 air AND t3 navy at the same time. It just doesn't work properly. Especially while being -250 mass.
General rule of thumb: if you're more than 50% of your income in the negative, make less stuff.
Best is to reclaim more or to eco a little more first so you can support your desired production. (make sure not to die while ecoing ofcourse)
Hope this'll help you in the future and if you have anymore question, just ask
Statistics: Posted by KeyBlue — 04 Jul 2017, 01:58
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Statistics: Posted by Mr Teatime — 04 Jul 2017, 00:44
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Morax wrote:
This is very dependent on the map... I would not live by this advice as a map like Roanoake, Desert Planet II, etc will murder you for not starting eco early.
codepants wrote:Seriously though. If you're playing ladder under 1k on 10x10 maps or smaller and you end with a t2 mex, you're doing it wrong
This is very dependent on the map... I would not live by this advice as a map like Roanoake, Desert Planet II, etc will murder you for not starting eco early.
Sure.
The point is:
1. Get map control.
2. (which comes after 1) If you can't win, eco until you can.
3. Repeat 1-2.
Statistics: Posted by codepants — 07 Sep 2016, 22:00
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codepants wrote:
Seriously though. If you're playing ladder under 1k on 10x10 maps or smaller and you end with a t2 mex, you're doing it wrong
Seriously though. If you're playing ladder under 1k on 10x10 maps or smaller and you end with a t2 mex, you're doing it wrong
This is very dependent on the map... I would not live by this advice as a map like Roanoake, Desert Planet II, etc will murder you for not starting eco early.
Statistics: Posted by Morax — 07 Sep 2016, 20:59
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try to fight for map control advantages, and then try to get a little bit of eco before he can take the map back
If he cannot take it back, and you keep ecoing with your advantage, you will crush
Statistics: Posted by biass — 07 Sep 2016, 18:46
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Kalavinka wrote:
I seemed to have trouble with my eco that game...
I seemed to have trouble with my eco that game...
If you want to get good at ladder, don't eco. 50% of ladder games last less than 15 minutes and 85% last less than 20 minutes. 85% that are longer than 20 minutes are decided before 20 minutes and just take time for the resolution to percolate.
A t2 mex costs 900 mass (about 20 tanks) and takes 2-3 minutes to pay for itself. In a 15 minute game, would you rather have a t2 mex for the last 5 minutes (2-3 of which it hasn't yet paid for itself) or 20 tanks?
Get good at spam and you will beat almost any turtle before they can turtle. If you don't -- go around them. Almost every map leaves you space to go around a turtle.
Learn a BO that lets you get 50 tanks on the map within ten minutes. It will likely rely on reclaim. But if you can do that on every map 10x10 or smaller, you will soar to about 1k, where hardly anyone turtles anymore (the only turtler I know above 1k is Electrician, and that's because he only exclusively plays UEF and only exclusively turtles. It's obnoxious. But the pros still beat him). And then learn how to eco.
Seriously though. If you're playing ladder under 1k on 10x10 maps or smaller and you end with a t2 mex, you're doing it wrong.
I suck on maps bigger than 10x10 so I'll let someone else comment there.
Statistics: Posted by codepants — 07 Sep 2016, 18:39
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Don't ever put up a fight with a fire base unless you are REALLY sure they are in a pinch.
Statistics: Posted by Morax — 25 Aug 2016, 15:37
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Hawkei wrote:
The turtling player is giving you an awesome gift. The map. Use it.
More land control = more resources.
More resources = more units.
More units = won games.
But here are some basic pointers about handling the turtle. Defensive structures don't move. They sacrifice the ability to move for combat efficiency. So the turtling player WANTS you to attack them. By attacking them, and loosing, you are giving them reclaim mass and keeping them in the game. The answer is simple, you dictate the terms of the engagement. You decide when to attack. So make sure that you win. Get more units. Get more artillery. Out range him. Get more missile batteries, and if it really is a good turtle then nuke it. If he makes a SMD, then strat bomb it and then nuke him.
So basically, the counters to a turtle, in order of escalation are:
1. Massed T1 artillery
2. Mobile Missile Launchers
3. TML batteries
4. T2 Gunships and bombers
5. Mobile T3 artillery
6. T3 and T4 assault bots
7. T3 bombers and gunships
7. Nukes
8. T3 static artillery
Or combinations of the above. Breaking turtles is simply a matter of reconisance and direct countering. You need to know what he has and how to counter it, and you also need to know when your units have been countered and when to escalate your attack to something else. You also need to evaluate what will happen if you do nothing and eco or tech up. Is it to your advantage to break the turtle, or will the time put you in the lead economically.
The turtling player is giving you an awesome gift. The map. Use it.
More land control = more resources.
More resources = more units.
More units = won games.
But here are some basic pointers about handling the turtle. Defensive structures don't move. They sacrifice the ability to move for combat efficiency. So the turtling player WANTS you to attack them. By attacking them, and loosing, you are giving them reclaim mass and keeping them in the game. The answer is simple, you dictate the terms of the engagement. You decide when to attack. So make sure that you win. Get more units. Get more artillery. Out range him. Get more missile batteries, and if it really is a good turtle then nuke it. If he makes a SMD, then strat bomb it and then nuke him.
So basically, the counters to a turtle, in order of escalation are:
1. Massed T1 artillery
2. Mobile Missile Launchers
3. TML batteries
4. T2 Gunships and bombers
5. Mobile T3 artillery
6. T3 and T4 assault bots
7. T3 bombers and gunships
7. Nukes
8. T3 static artillery
Or combinations of the above. Breaking turtles is simply a matter of reconisance and direct countering. You need to know what he has and how to counter it, and you also need to know when your units have been countered and when to escalate your attack to something else. You also need to evaluate what will happen if you do nothing and eco or tech up. Is it to your advantage to break the turtle, or will the time put you in the lead economically.
Thank you very much. The list helps big time.
I seemed to have trouble with my eco that game, which is another problem entirely. I'd been attempting to grasp more control of the map, but I evidently just wasn't getting the right units. I'll probably stuff that list in a notepad document and refer to it until I memorise it. v:
Much appreciated response!
Statistics: Posted by Kalavinka — 08 Aug 2016, 10:15
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More land control = more resources.
More resources = more units.
More units = won games.
But here are some basic pointers about handling the turtle. Defensive structures don't move. They sacrifice the ability to move for combat efficiency. So the turtling player WANTS you to attack them. By attacking them, and loosing, you are giving them reclaim mass and keeping them in the game. The answer is simple, you dictate the terms of the engagement. You decide when to attack. So make sure that you win. Get more units. Get more artillery. Out range him. Get more missile batteries, and if it really is a good turtle then nuke it. If he makes a SMD, then strat bomb it and then nuke him.
So basically, the counters to a turtle, in order of escalation are:
1. Massed T1 artillery
2. Mobile Missile Launchers
3. TML batteries
4. T2 Gunships and bombers
5. Mobile T3 artillery
6. T3 and T4 assault bots
7. T3 bombers and gunships
7. Nukes
8. T3 static artillery
Or combinations of the above. Breaking turtles is simply a matter of reconisance and direct countering. You need to know what he has and how to counter it, and you also need to know when your units have been countered and when to escalate your attack to something else. You also need to evaluate what will happen if you do nothing and eco or tech up. Is it to your advantage to break the turtle, or will the time put you in the lead economically.
Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 08 Aug 2016, 09:56
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Turtling players.
Every single game I play, I seem to end up against turtling players - particularly UEF. They build shields, they build point defenses, and by the time I have a T3 army up they somehow seem to have a bigger one. My forward bases get bombarded by artillery, my every assault fails...
It's enough to get me to the boiling point.
But on a serious note, does anyone have any advice? I've attached a replay (warning: cringefest) of my most recent battle against a player who turtled HARDCORE. If anyone has the time, patience or even the simple desire to laugh at my expense, I would greatly appreciate being absolutely ripped to shreds.
Advice, criticism... anything helps. I'm looking to improve my game, and I can accept my own stupidity.
Thank you.
Statistics: Posted by Kalavinka — 08 Aug 2016, 09:43
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