Forged Alliance Forever

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-04-29T10:49:43+02:00

UEF T2 navy is all about bringing the right tools to the party. Everything has a specific job, and is also bad at covering it's weaknesses. So it can be a real pain. Unlike most other factions which need only build Cruisers and Destroyers.

The T1 frigates are cheap, have more HP, and give better intel. You should be sending these out early, to get good map coverage and apply early pressure to expansions. T1 submarines don't really pay dividends and are micro intensive. If your frigates get attacked by subs, just tank the damage, and send T2 torp bombers. Or accept the loss of a ship.

At the T2 phase, both the destroyer and cruiser are useful for island pressure. So you can have a frigate, torp boat, cruiser combination. Or alternately go for a frigate, destroyer, cruiser combination. I find torp boats are too flimsy, and not at all useful for ground pressure. I will only build them in the face of a very heavy sub spammer. My preference for anti-sub would be to use the torpedo bomber when possible.

Another thing to really consider is augmenting your naval direct fire capabilities with Stinger gunships and Riptide hover tanks. This will give you more of an amphibious capability, and allow you to seamlessly transition between land and naval fighting. Which is very important on a map like Roanoke.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 29 Apr 2016, 10:49

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-29T09:12:06+02:00

That's a very interesting (and entertaining) replay.

Thanks!

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 29 Mar 2016, 09:12

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-29T01:05:21+02:00

Valki wrote:
ZLO_RD wrote:also t2 uef destro is actually not completely useless, it does have torpedos and torpedo defence, and if enemy will not micro his subs to actually target destro then destro might actually win eventually xD
if enemy subs targetted on destro, then destro can start runnning away, and then subs can no longer targetfire...

That's either brilliant or evil, but sounds good.

I'll try that.

some players might have good enought micro to start chasing your destro before it leaves attack radius of subs, then then this tactic will not work, but you may try some unexpected zig-zags to run away... but then you probably not able to shoot at island... idk it just depends on situation

also general micro for t2 navy, for uef is to just fight only when shield it up, when it is about to get down just pull back
i attached replay that is featuring low number of t2 ships and very low number of frigates.
Sandbox test did show that in 1v1 destroyer fight, cybran destroyer is by far the worst one, all it takes in just to micro to dodge all shots, while cybran destroyer is very hard to micro since it can't shoot backwards.

does not really matter how many frigates opponent has but as soon as shield is down you should try to retreat and keep dodging shots, and hope that he will rally frigs on you so you can kill them (uef destro does have good DPS and hp)
as soon as frigate numbers are lowered just go and fight cybran destros, with shield or without you should just dodge all shots

be carefull, if you are heavy outnumbered, then you can just loose cause of enemy destroyer torpedo DPS... so it makes sence to not get too close... ofc it all depends on micro and i don't even remmeber how to micro cybran destro... afaik you can actually retreat but keep like 120 degree angle so you may actually shoot a bit while retreat... or even just make t2 ACU and make t2 torp PD xD

also bulwarks shields get very low very fast under destro fire, after shields are down you can dodge, but also that shield blocks torpedos and torpedo bombers or other damamge from air, with does help uef navy quite alot, and you should be carefull cause subs and torp bombers are actuallly very good for sniping bulwarks and winning fight for cybran player.... also stealth... does not matter how much you dodge if you can't even shoot opponent

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 29 Mar 2016, 01:05

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-29T00:50:11+02:00

ZLO_RD wrote:
also t2 uef destro is actually not completely useless, it does have torpedos and torpedo defence, and if enemy will not micro his subs to actually target destro then destro might actually win eventually xD
if enemy subs targetted on destro, then destro can start runnning away, and then subs can no longer targetfire...

That's either brilliant or evil, but sounds good.

I'll try that.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 29 Mar 2016, 00:50

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-29T00:45:07+02:00

if i would have to play uef on roanoke i would just try to spam a ton of frigs and very early t2 navy, and just rally t2 each t2 destro to each enemy island, and just run around it trying to avoind actual fight and just shoot at the island as much as possible

even if enemy gets t2 subs, you can still run away, and deal alot of damage to island, and t2 subs will not kill frigates very fast, and eventually you can get t2 torps or coopers and your frigates will be good to hold of enemy t2 navy while you still damaging enemy islands....i used that "strategy" very long time ago, but i actually copied it from Voodoo as far as i can remember, the hidden key is to not eco to much, or else you will just not have enought frigates/fast enought t2 navy

also t2 uef destro is actually not completely useless, it does have torpedos and torpedo defence, and if enemy will not micro his subs to actually target destro then destro might actually win eventually xD
if enemy subs targetted on destro, then destro can start runnning away, and then subs can no longer targetfire...

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 29 Mar 2016, 00:45

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-29T00:08:16+02:00

From what I saw and know I can say the following:
1) Cooper is the best anti-submarine unit and it is a ship.
2) UEF Valiant (destro) is bad with torpedoes so it needs Cooper.
3) Since both of those are ships, they are vulnerable to naval direct fire.
4) Given the fact that Cooper is a ship, not a submarine, and doesn't have any naval direct fire weapons, it is logical to have some kind of defense for it and the destroyer.

So yes, Bulwarks are useful. I saw an ally use 2-3 to shield his 2 cruisers and 15 frigates that would otherwise get toasted by enemy Salems.

Also, when the game was developed, its creators must've had a reason to add Bulwark to it.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 29 Mar 2016, 00:08

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-28T12:45:44+02:00

biass wrote:
Shields are a massive advantage, so yes..

But are their destroyers and torpedo boats so shitty to put a fight without them?

My question is not whether they are useful or not, but whether they are really needed.

Statistics: Posted by angus000 — 28 Mar 2016, 12:45

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-28T11:37:05+02:00

Shields are a massive advantage, so yes..

Statistics: Posted by biass — 28 Mar 2016, 11:37

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-28T10:27:55+02:00

Does the UEF navy really need shields?

Statistics: Posted by angus000 — 28 Mar 2016, 10:27

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-28T10:04:51+02:00

UEF also has shields

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 28 Mar 2016, 10:04

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-28T02:14:44+02:00

LichKing2033 wrote:
That makes one wonder: Why does UEF have 2 units, destroyer and torpedo boat, where other factions have 1? They can live just fine with Valiant-Cooper combo in one and Bulwark. A torpedo boat is vulnerable to both direct fire and to torpedoes.

other factions have t2 S U B S

Statistics: Posted by biass — 28 Mar 2016, 02:14

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-27T18:35:25+02:00

[quote="TheKoopa"]If you really don't want to spend the mass/e on a second HQ, then you'll have to mix coopers with the destroyers. Good thing is that coopers are by far the best anti-sub anti-torp units.[/quote]

That makes one wonder: Why does UEF have 2 units, destroyer and torpedo boat, where other factions have 1? They can live just fine with Valiant-Cooper combo in one and Bulwark. A torpedo boat is vulnerable to both direct fire and to torpedoes.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 27 Mar 2016, 18:35

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-26T20:43:53+02:00

ZLO_RD wrote:
Useing subs instead od frigates sounds great on paper, but in reality it is pretty micro intencive, you need to submerge each time you encounter a frigate or hover tank (in case of aeon), or t1 arty some times tryes to defedn islands too, and if opponent realises how you are trying to use t1 subs, then he can even use t1 bombers to defend

frigates on other hand have more HP, they are cheaper, have better sonar and also have radar and antiair, and more usefull after t1 stage since most faction t2 destroyers are good against submarines

Subs becoming useless at T2 is a good point, I will happily go on not building (many) submarines.

However, micro-ing subs to destroy mex would work almost as well with 1 sub (per target) as with sub-spam. I think I'm going to try how well mex-raiding with 2 single tigersharks will work on Roanoke... it doesn't solve my T2 navy vs subs and structures problem but it does sound like fun to do

Mot wrote:
I often find that t1 subs lead to a loss of an oponent. Don't stick around with the friagates, split them up, get t2 air/coopers and get happy about how much more effective your mass investments are. I haven't played uef much but coopers and shield boats should help you out alot. I mean you could go for shields coopers and cruisers if the oponent is stubborn enough to stick to subs, ceptors + storks above your navy get even more devastating then.

Coopers and shield boats do not destroy land-based structures, for that you need destroyers or cruisers. Frigates don't outrange T1 and T2 pd.
As Aeon I usually need 2 or 3 destroyers to get the job done, and then I usually manage to inflict so much damage to his base that I win. But it seems I will need to spend much more time and mass to destroy the subs and attack the base with UEF as compared to Aeon.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 26 Mar 2016, 20:43

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-26T16:46:24+02:00

I often find that t1 subs lead to a loss of an oponent. Don't stick around with the friagates, split them up, get t2 air/coopers and get happy about how much more effective your mass investments are. I haven't played uef much but coopers and shield boats should help you out alot. I mean you could go for shields coopers and cruisers if the oponent is stubborn enough to stick to subs, ceptors + storks above your navy get even more devastating then.

Statistics: Posted by Mot — 26 Mar 2016, 16:46

Re: UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

2016-03-26T15:33:51+02:00

Useing subs instead od frigates sounds great on paper, but in reality it is pretty micro intencive, you need to submerge each time you encounter a frigate or hover tank (in case of aeon), or t1 arty some times tryes to defedn islands too, and if opponent realises how you are trying to use t1 subs, then he can even use t1 bombers to defend

frigates on other hand have more HP, they are cheaper, have better sonar and also have radar and antiair, and more usefull after t1 stage since most faction t2 destroyers are good against submarines

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 26 Mar 2016, 15:33