Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2016-02-07T22:59:21+02:00

Benoker wrote:
Once the turtle started:
-> place some TMD all over the map, they are cheap, and would have nullified his primary defense
-> use TML yourself? After all he is playing UEF, which is not known for its defences against missiles.
-> don't attack unless you know you can do some damage. Pick the easy targets first. For example why not build some T1 subs and kill of his navy?
-> kill stuff that hurts. For example your 3. (?) collosus nearly killed a T3 power plant - that would have caused a lot more issues for him than a dent in the shield of his ACU
-> try out different unit compositions. He built a lot of Percis and T3 PD, a few (read: at least 100) T1 artilleries together with some shield breakers, and a collosi as distraction might have broken through.
-> and if nothing helps: T3 bomber snipe, the ultimate tool against anyone that has no air force.

Benoker, from what I saw in the replay,
1) Derek (the UEF player) didn't use so much TML. Except against ships.
2) TML would indeed help. And so would T2 PD around unprotected mexes or Valki.
3) "Kill stuff that hurts" - yes, good idea.
4) "Different unit compositions" - yeah, that'd do. Not launch GC one by one and a lone Tempest but strike with all at once. Including T3 heavy arty, which, by the way, can also move while shooting. Al least in Aeon.
5) "T3 bomber snipe" - I doubt that's break through.

Valki, why not build and use Czar? GC is easier to defeat than Czar. I think. At least in your situation it was. Then - "T3 arty was killed by something" - specifically Derek's T2 stationary artillery. If you intend to shell a base like Derek's, spam Miasmas. They do the most damage out of all factions' T2 arty (2850, while UEF is 2000). Like some people have advised, elimination of that feeble UEF navy would've eliminated Derek's sea defense, making him more vulnerable, since I doubt he would dare to come out and start navy out again.
Also, why no "Salvation"? That'd cripple any defense unless destroyed. Also, lack of base defense and reliance on Derek's inactivity is a fatal mistake. Even if you had more time, his Percies near your primary base would take it all out and eliminate all HQs, disabling your other base and seriously damaging your eco. I looked, you had no forces or PD to stop them.
Navy. Why the missile ships? Why not battleships? They'd do more damage. Shells (or should I say energy charges) are not stopped by TMD, like missiles are. The only way for him to kill battleships would be to use excessively TML, feeble cruisers or the inaccurate T2 arty. By the time your 2-3 battleships were destroyed, his base would be all ashes.
Air. Beboker's idea of T3 strat snipe could be useful. At least, if it were used together with the two GC and a full-scale T3 Mark IV assault, it would seriously damage defenses and shields, making it possible to break through and kill the commander.
Sprite Strikes could've also been used. They would be killed in many and quickly, but they's do damage.

Make conclusions and learn from the mistakes.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 07 Feb 2016, 22:59

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-13T16:31:27+02:00

briang wrote:
Normal battleships have double TMD. Tempest was certainly the wrong choice.

That is good to know, that would definitely have helped.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 13 Sep 2015, 16:31

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-13T10:12:22+02:00

TMD on water??? - Nice.
I think I didn't get enough cruisers in range of the Tempest.

But the basic point that I should have won that game, but ran out of time unable to crack his base, was very frustrating.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 13 Sep 2015, 10:12

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-13T09:39:42+02:00

I actually dont know how you didnt win with that tempest cruiser has TMD that would save it. you can even build normal TMD on water with engies. Like you so should have won that game.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 13 Sep 2015, 09:39

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-13T09:33:59+02:00

@Speed2: Also thank you for helping.

Core of the problem is that I do not often do get to T3, or get over 80 mass income, before the game is over. So I didn't really know what to do with my eco and tech
I saw I was overflowing mass but it was difficult to stop, I'm used to having mass stalls.

Thanks for the advice, though I have

CZAR:I was under the impression that it is use-impaired (if not useless). I once used it against a turtle, from the sheer volume of SAMs it died almost before reaching the base, and it barely hit a T3 power plant when it crashed, but it did set off a chain reaction of T3 power plants and T3 mass fabs. Even then, it was reclaimed and I got a Fatboy back at me quite quickly.
Wouldn't the battleship be even more vulnerable than the Tempest? The battleship does not outrange the T2 static artillery, and is just as vulnerable to TML.

ASF were a small oops btw, I forgot I was assisting the air factory.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 13 Sep 2015, 09:33

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-13T08:56:18+02:00

Few things Ive noticed:

When you had chance to kill his navy (before he went T2) with your navy and auroras, you sent only your navy but after it was too late
you need to counter:
- T2 Pds with mobile missile launchers
- T3 PDs with T3 mobile arty + as an Aeon you have shields disruptors that just eats shields for a breakfast
- Then he built T2 static arty and you were trying to break it only with Missile ship, but most of its damage got blocked by TMD, if you get battleship as well, his base would fall, or enough destroyers. Direct fire power can't be stopped by TMD
With most of the maps taken you were kinda forgeting to eco, but the real thing was you wasnt able to use that mass anyway, building more factories, more engies and more game enders would help, since you had all the mass on the world available.
Once you reached T3 air you started spamming ASF? You always need to look at what your opponent has. You had everything scouted and good radar coverage and only air units he was building were T1 scouts. And for another 10 minutes you didnt build anything else than ASFs. You know there are strats bombers as well to break through. Or if CZAR falls in his base it will kill half of it with crash damage

I hope it was usefull and better luck next time

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 13 Sep 2015, 08:56

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-13T07:13:42+02:00

4 simultaneously (targeted at nuke defence). One faction stops 4 by about .5 seconds when placed on the defence. If you place it closer so the defence missile has travel time it still explodes though

Statistics: Posted by Deering — 13 Sep 2015, 07:13

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-13T06:20:19+02:00

@Benoker: Thanks for taking the time to watch the replay and help me out.

Benoker wrote:
I saw the same things repeating over and over again:
- you driving some expensive units too close to his base (so they die)
- him sniping expensive units and mexes with tactical missiles

It took me a while to realize just how powerful and long-ranged those T3 PD are. I haven't encountered them much yet, I will be more careful next time.

Benoker wrote:
Once the turtle started:
-> place some TMD all over the map, they are cheap, and would have nullified his primary defense
-> use TML yourself? After all he is playing UEF, which is not known for its defences against missiles.
-> don't attack unless you know you can do some damage. Pick the easy targets first. For example why not build some T1 subs and kill of his navy?
-> kill stuff that hurts. For example your 3. (?) collosus nearly killed a T3 power plant - that would have caused a lot more issues for him than a dent in the shield of his ACU
-> try out different unit compositions. He built a lot of Percis and T3 PD, a few (read: at least 100) T1 artilleries together with some shield breakers, and a collosi as distraction might have broken through.
-> and if nothing helps: T3 bomber snipe, the ultimate tool against anyone that has no air force.

Good advice, if I am ahead in eco I should indeed be able to do these things.
I'll try it next time.

One more question:

Can SMD be overwhelmed by 2 or 3 nukes launched simultaneously?

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 13 Sep 2015, 06:20

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-12T18:35:57+02:00

I saw the same things repeating over and over again:
- you driving some expensive units too close to his base (so they die)
- him sniping expensive units and mexes with tactical missiles

Once the turtle started:
-> place some TMD all over the map, they are cheap, and would have nullified his primary defense
-> use TML yourself? After all he is playing UEF, which is not known for its defences against missiles.
-> don't attack unless you know you can do some damage. Pick the easy targets first. For example why not build some T1 subs and kill of his navy?
-> kill stuff that hurts. For example your 3. (?) collosus nearly killed a T3 power plant - that would have caused a lot more issues for him than a dent in the shield of his ACU
-> try out different unit compositions. He built a lot of Percis and T3 PD, a few (read: at least 100) T1 artilleries together with some shield breakers, and a collosi as distraction might have broken through.
-> and if nothing helps: T3 bomber snipe, the ultimate tool against anyone that has no air force.

Statistics: Posted by Benoker — 12 Sep 2015, 18:35

Re: Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-12T17:52:44+02:00

that doesnt sound that boring...

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 12 Sep 2015, 17:52

Beating UEF turtle

2015-09-12T16:28:43+02:00

Just had a terrible game against a UEF player on "TAG_Craftious Maximus", replay (long and boring) included.

After I got the upper hand in the early game he began to turtle. I had 50% of the map, he had only his base corner, the rest was unclaimed. I tried a lot of things...

Frontal attack at T2 stage and T3 stage failed.
Torrents were shot down with Tac launchers.
Galactic Colossi were shot down, one got close and caught his ACU outside of shield cover, but he had a personal shield and didn't even walk away when Colossus was still at 50%.
Tempests were shot down with Tac launchers and Fatboy.
He had SMD, so didn't bother with Nukes.
T3 Mobile Arty was shot down by something.

And then it was time for me to take care of the baby and start cooking dinner, so I Ctrl+K'd.

How do I deal with this?

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 12 Sep 2015, 16:28