Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-16T09:32:59+02:00

edit: not for 1v1...

Statistics: Posted by Cuddles — 16 Jul 2015, 09:32

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-15T19:04:52+02:00

Step 13, set some T1 engineers the ones you set to reclaim and later may have used to speed upgrades back to reclaim, they should be set to reclaim large areas around your base where mass ends up when destroyed by your defenses.

Step 14, build a transport pre-load it with T1 engineers, keep it paused and stored under a shield, have it ready to rapidly respond to a destroyed EXP and reclaim the mass once destroyed.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 15 Jul 2015, 19:04

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-15T14:49:13+02:00

Teralitha wrote:
Step 1 - How do you build a hydro before you build any factories? Your commander doesnt get that schematic until you go to T2...

And air factory does not need to be built first. I dont see top players doing this. Maybe it depends on your faction or maps.

"Step 12, this will take your mass income over 300, At this point you can continue to increase mass income by building T2 MASSFabs or T3 MassFAbs and associated power generation in order to better provide resources for your factories. "

Im not sure about your games, but most games Ive played end before you accomplish getting 11 mexes to t3 with storage and ras. = 300+ Heck alot of maps you dont even have access to that many mexes unchallanged.

I could see this guide being useful if you play by yourself without any opponants.

For ECO purposes building air or land makes no difference really. > You will want to build your factory first in 99% of builds that I've seen that work in FA.

Building air fact first is a personal strategic choice for me because air units move faster than land and T1 air units move slower than other air, and T1 air is essentially useless in without being in groups after a few minutes when your opponent has proper intel and can move to intercept your T1 air before it gets to its target, and the fastest way to take damage early on gap is via air as well as the fastest way to deliver it. On Setons the front guy should probably build land fact first as land units are what they'll face first. However if they plan to spam T1 air and are cybran a pretty good anti air jester with interceptor force can push back any concerted air offensive early on. Depends what race, what strategy you use, tactics, how much APM micro vs ECO management you want to do in the first 5-10 min. I prefer not fighting early on until I have something worth defending and you have something worth fighting for.

All strategic blah blah blah but this guide is on ECO. All strategic considerations set aside to focus on eco for the moment truths are this...

Build your factory first> build your hydrocarbon next, as this is the basis for producing energy efficiently early on without getting into a power stall. The process of ECO is pretty simple, get as many T1 MEXES as you can. Once it becomes clear you can't hold every MEX point on the map, can't get more or even hold the ones you have, start upgrading sequentially the ones you have the best chance of holding. There typically is a forward and rear of every battlefield, if there isn't make it clear to your enemy which MEXs are yours! The 4 around your starting factory for example should be solid right so this is your rear area, upgrade these 4 first in the order above.

No question there are some leaner maps or more exposed maps, Gap is one of the least exposed maps to ground attack with one main choke point and two smaller choke points. Setons is more open but on each of these maps you have about the same number of MEXEs. As players are eliminated you should put a high priority on taking the available MEXES, if you have a +300 mass income you can sometimes get away with straight building a T2 MEX and upgrading from there.

Economically it is always best to build and rebuild a T1 MEX because it will pay for itself very shortly and every bit of mass helps. Tactically if you don't hold a piece of territory and can't defend it, i.e. prevent the destruction of the MEX then this is now what I would consider "a mass point you can get". So obviously don't upgrade it, or if it has been destroyed twice before don't waste your APM time trying to rebuild in that current state of equilibrium. Go back and try to pick it up after you have done some of the following. Stick to upgrading what you can defend. If you are struggling economically because you don't have enough MEXs, learn that next time you'll need to move faster, fortify the ones you do, and start building a force to take and hold the next MEX. Ask for help in taking it if you need it. All but 1V1 and FFA games are about teamwork and cooperation.

Things not to do... JUST DONT DO THIS and you are on the path to efficiency in your ECO.
Building T1 Mexes and then upgrading one of them to T2 and then T3, before upgrading your T1 MEXES all to T2
Building Mass Storage around your T1 MEXES
Building Mass Storage around your T2 MEXES before you have upgraded all your T1 MEXES to T2.

Know your Mass Income Per MEX LEVEL/Storage Bonus
Understanding Adjacency
http://wiki.faforever.com/index.php?tit ... ency_Bonus

MEX MASS INCOME BY ITSELF
T1 MEX MASS INCOME :2
T2 MEX MASS INCOME :6
T3 MEX MASS INCOME :18

MEX MASS INCOME SURROUNED BY STORAGE 4SIDES
T1 MEX MASS INCOME :3 (+1) <---Not Cost Effective UPGRADE YOUR DAMN MEX TO T2 FIRST!
T1 MEX MASS INCOME :9 (+3) <---Cost Effective
T1 MEX MASS INCOME :27 (+9) <---MOST Benefit

As you can see surrounding your MEX with storage at various levels increases your Mass Income per MEX. The thing to note is the cost. T1 MEXES are cheap, upgrading to T2 MEXES next cheapest, adding storage around T2 MEXES next cheapest, but not as cheap as upgrading a T1 MEX to T2 MEX, most expensive is taking a T2MEX to T3 MEX. (More costly to just build a T3 MEX on a destroyed MEX point than building a T2 MEX and upgrading it)-Need to fact check this but am assuming it true.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 15 Jul 2015, 14:49

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-15T01:53:49+02:00

Just so everyone knows kd7bch is talking about gap of rohan, and usually rohan seems to be an eco race.

Teralitha wrote:
Step 1 - How do you build a hydro before you build any factories? Your commander doesnt get that schematic until you go to T2...

First engineer builds it and acu either assists or goes out to center to get reclaim.

Teralitha wrote:
And air factory does not need to be built first. I dont see top players doing this. Maybe it depends on your faction or maps.

Sometimes on rohan an early bomber can be devistating to one of the players heading out to reclaim which is probably why he says that.

Teralitha wrote:
"Step 12, this will take your mass income over 300, At this point you can continue to increase mass income by building T2 MASSFabs or T3 MassFAbs and associated power generation in order to better provide resources for your factories. "

Im not sure about your games, but most games Ive played end before you accomplish getting 11 mexes to t3 with storage and ras. = 300+ Heck alot of maps you dont even have access to that many mexes unchallanged.

I could see this guide being useful if you play by yourself without any opponants.

Like I said he is talking about rohan.

Statistics: Posted by belatedcube — 15 Jul 2015, 01:53

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-15T01:49:07+02:00

Teralitha wrote:
I could see this guide being useful if you play by yourself without any opponants.

thats funny

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 15 Jul 2015, 01:49

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-15T01:11:55+02:00

Step 1 - How do you build a hydro before you build any factories? Your commander doesnt get that schematic until you go to T2...

And air factory does not need to be built first. I dont see top players doing this. Maybe it depends on your faction or maps.

"Step 12, this will take your mass income over 300, At this point you can continue to increase mass income by building T2 MASSFabs or T3 MassFAbs and associated power generation in order to better provide resources for your factories. "

Im not sure about your games, but most games Ive played end before you accomplish getting 11 mexes to t3 with storage and ras. = 300+ Heck alot of maps you dont even have access to that many mexes unchallanged.

I could see this guide being useful if you play by yourself without any opponants.

Statistics: Posted by Teralitha — 15 Jul 2015, 01:11

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-13T16:33:53+02:00

DONT'S

Don't start upgrading your T1 MEX to T2 without first getting all the Ta MEXES you can and reasonably defend.

Don't build more than 1 factory for each 5 T1 MEXES, you'll run out of mass making T1 units.

Don't surround T1 MEXES with Storage, Upgrade them to T2 first

Don't assist your factory(s) with engineers until you have T2 MEXES.
Exceptions include... Finding yourself with loads of excess mass early on, or if you have lost a bunch of engineers, or if you are under imminent attack and need defense forces quickly.

Don't upgrade any MEX to T3 until all of your T1 MEXES are upgraded to T2.

Don't Upgrade more than one or two MEXES at a time.

Don't Upgrade your MEXES in parallel, same as above, always try to upgrade them in series, sequentially one after the other, and if your build power can't keep up with your mass income then upgrade more than one MEX at a time. When you run out of T2 MEXES to upgrade. Surround them with storage.

Don't upgrade a MEX to T2 if has a greater than 25% chance of being destroyed or captured in the next 5 minutes. Forward mass points are always susceptible to loss and upgrading costs substantial amounts of resources and build power.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 13 Jul 2015, 16:33

Re: Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-12T04:48:48+02:00

"Your goal is to spend your eco as effective as you can with no stall or (minimum) floating resources." -Mad Mozart

Words of Wisdom folks.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 12 Jul 2015, 04:48

Getting Better at ECO

2015-07-12T04:29:45+02:00

I was asked to remove this write up from another thread as it was off topic. So I have created my own topic.

Feel free to add your advice for new players.

You wanna get good at ECO, I mean really good.

Step 1 Build the Hydrocarbon plant first

Step 2 Build all the T1 Mexes (Mexes = Mass Extractor) you can get at before you upgrade any T2 Mexes

Step 3 Build an air factory first, then build a land factory, or if you swap it build the other one on your 2nd factory so you maintain flexibility.

Step 4 Build 1 power storage so you can Over Charge If you need to.
Homework: Learn what the hell is Overcharge

Step 5 Once you have built all the T1 Mexes on Mass points that you can start upgrading them one by one. Use one, two, or three engineers to speed the upgrade process. Upgrade one at a time.

Step 6 Start using T1 engineers to reclaim.

Step 7 Click on your eco meter and change the readout from -number to -% so you can see how fast mass and energy are flowing in or flowing out. This is your speedometer. You don't want to be going faster or slower than you have income if you can avoid it until you have upgrade as far as you can. You also don't want these bars full ever, that means you are spilling mass over into your allies or into oblivion. It is far better to be able to pour that mass into units and that energy into the construction of units or upgrades. If you find yourself constantly maxing out, you need to increase your build power, and also build a few more units of storage. If after adding some storage you are still maxing out, then you need to drastically increase your build power.
Questions: Post it...

Step 8 Having upgraded 3-4 MEXES to T2 you have about 50 mass income now, you may be able to upgrade 2 at a time, or put more than 3 engineers on each upgrade sequentially. CONCEPT: There is a limit to the effectiveness of adding more engineers to a build task. The best practice is usually to stage three idle engineers at 2 MEXES, and only upgrade one at atime, and then when one upgrade is done, sent those 3 engineers to the next MEX and start the next upgrade. Around this time assess the tactical situation, decide if adding more factories or upgrading your first factory to T2 makes sense. If you are past 5 minutes start the upgrade of the factory first before doing 2 MEX upgrades at the same time.

Step 9 having upgrades all your mexes, having upgrade one of your factories to T2, start building T2 engineers, use the T1 engineers who are idle to build Mass Storage around the T2 2 mexes only. The cost of the storage is offset by the return in mass you gain by doing this to a T2 MEX,
Homework: Observe this in game by doing it and checking out how much mass you pull in after doing this.
Bonus Homework: Observe the amount of mass you pull in with an surrounded by storage T3 MEX and a T3 MEX with storage, it is substantial. Rule of thumb, DO NOT UPGRADE T2 MEXs to T3 until you have storage around them.

Step 10 With T2 Engineers build some T2 power plants, You will need 2-3 of them. Then upgrade your ACU RAS upgrade.

Step 11, With ACU RAS in place, continue to upgrade your T2 MEX storage until they are all surrounded. This will put you over 100 mass on most maps, then upgrade your T2 MEXES to T3 again using the same process as before, sequentially in series not in parallel.

Step 12, this will take your mass income over 300, At this point you can continue to increase mass income by building T2 MASSFabs or T3 MassFAbs and associated power generation in order to better provide resources for your factories.

As time permits get this shit under shields!

Continue to upgrade your factories as you will need a T3 engineer or the ACU with the T3 build module to get T3 Fabs/Energy.

Sometimes called the T4 eco, you can build SCU gateways and build SCUs which can RAS as well, and become mobile power plants which also general mass. Pretty cool huh. If you can follow this build order while also kicking ass you will do well. Practice of the order of operations helps smooth things along.

Once you understand how excess energy can be converted into mass via mass fabs, you can supplement your economy and smooth the transitions from one stage to the next as well. I also use power storage to help level out power shortages due to battle damage or pressing build needs. Keeping those resource bars between empty and middle level means you are building as fast as you are taking in resources and building military power as fast as your economy is expanding.

I also use templates to smooth the APM required to handle all the eco while focusing on the tactical situation and strategic picture. For Example, you have a dozen MEXES each requires mass storage on 4 sides that is 12x4=48 precise placements. I use a template code named QMS, Quad Mass Storage where I simply click it once and can place it around each mex in the same way.

Another template I use is 9PS, 9 Power Storage, to put a 3x3 grid of power storage down, this is relatively cheap to build with a T1 engineer at any time, and if you stick it under a shield pretty durable. This can help smooth over power losses and keep your ability to field a fighting force more resilient. I especially like how I can get my ACU to do ARAS, (Advanced RAS) in 15 seconds when I have enough of the 9PS templates built all around.

I am not ranked highly, and I don't routinely win, games, but I do routinely exceed the economic development of my competition at the level I'm ranked by doing this and you can too.

Statistics: Posted by KD7BCH — 12 Jul 2015, 04:29