Forged Alliance Forever

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-24T17:31:09+02:00

T1 bombers are very useful for killing radar.

Statistics: Posted by ax0lotl — 24 Jun 2015, 17:31

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-13T20:42:13+02:00

You cant really lay down a specific set of ways to do each thing, everything in sup com is situational, and there will be different circumstances behind most expansion mexes that you want to hold on to. Keep in mind that t1 mexes are insanely cheap and pay for themselves very quickly, so losing them isnt always the worst thing that can happen

Statistics: Posted by theeggroll — 13 Jun 2015, 20:42

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-13T16:53:52+02:00

Make no mistake, I play Aeon mostly for the Auroras. Especially when used offensively they can wreck havoc, even against superior numbers (which is great, because I suck at early game eco).

However, when I have 20 auroras defending something (say, my base), and 20 mantis run in then I can't do anything to prevent them from running into my base, and killing radar, engineers, newly produced units and maybe some pgens or mexes. Sure, the mantis will die, but so will a lot of my base.

I am just looking for something to deal with that. Bombers still seem like the best option for defending outlying mexes, ACU and PD only defense for main base.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 13 Jun 2015, 16:53

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-12T16:12:32+02:00

Auroras are excellent tanks, far better than mantis. What actually happens in a real game is that a mantis comes, he does not know where your engi is, and meanwhile an aurora is shooting him. If your enemy can pay attention to his mantis to target your engi, then you can also pay attention with your aurora and engi to run away. Of course you need a scout with your aurora, otherwise it can't even use its full range. Luckily aeon scout is OP: biggest radar range, fastest movement speed, hover, etc. Even if you react late you can still use ridiculous aurora dodging and win vs mantis even in a close range fight.

About bombers: you may think that your bombers are ineffective because they are not killing any units, but that's not true. They may not kill any individual unit but against groups they damage several units at once. A bomber is 80 mass. A tank is 50+ mass. If a single bomb hits 4 units it's already worth it. Aeon bombers in particular are extremely good because they stun units, even t2 units. Stunning some t2 tanks or a t2 destroyer can easily turn a fight in your favor. Remember that a destro is 2250 mass, a 80 mass unit that can stun it is very good.

Switch from aeon to cybran, then you'll see.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 12 Jun 2015, 16:12

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-12T15:11:19+02:00

keyser wrote:
the radar coverage of aeon scout is the biggest.
feel like you can spend the apm to back the engie and kite the mantis in early game. At least i can do it, and i don't have high apm. Maybe you should use your apm for more important task (defending expension engie is an important task)

Maybe it is, I'll spend some more APM on defense for a while and see what it does.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 12 Jun 2015, 15:11

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-12T14:43:45+02:00

the radar coverage of aeon scout is the biggest.
feel like you can spend the apm to back the engie and kite the mantis in early game. At least i can do it, and i don't have high apm. Maybe you should use your apm for more important task (defending expension engie is an important task)

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 12 Jun 2015, 14:43

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-12T12:30:53+02:00

Aurion wrote:
It's better to plan accordingly, ie. defend expanding engies with escorts.

Escorts of what, Obsidians?

Seriously, to defend an engineer without micro from 1 mantis you'd need 2 Auroras and a scout. It is very nice to notice an incoming Mantis and micro, but mantis move fast, the map is big, and radar coverage of a scout is low - and you would probably still lose the engineer before destroying the mantis.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 12 Jun 2015, 12:30

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-12T10:03:35+02:00

Valki wrote:
Aurion wrote:You need ground units versus ground units unless you get gunships (but you still need a significant ground force excluding some navy maps I guess). Patrolling bombers to defend stuff is really inefficient at least.

Auroras are not cost effective when defending against raiding early on, to defend against 2 mantis, without radar coverage and micro, you need 5 auroras or so. That's why I want an early defensive bomber, just to get those annoying raiders that are difficult to chase or got close to my auroras.

I just thought I could easily call upon them to help with big frontal assaults, but apparently that just doesn't work.

If they are in the right spot they are. Sure, it's hard to get map control fast with aurora vs mantis (while slightly later you have a big advantage because of range), but using bombers to defend is even less cost-effective (and probably doesn't even work, making raids successful). It's better to plan accordingly, ie. defend expanding engies with escorts.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 12 Jun 2015, 10:03

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-11T21:47:57+02:00

talking about t1 bombers:
-Bombers are not very effective against mobile units, unless land units are moveing in formation, or tightly packed just by accident or players micro.
-Against bombers you can change direction where your army going just before bomber wants to drop and it most likely will result in bomber missing targets or not dropping at all
-Aeon and Sera bombers are much better against mobile units

you can use them to defend against raids, but from my experience it is not very effective

My answer would be to use attack move, but still bombers would be not very effective without micro

But if you play on a big map and game goes long you can sometimes start continuosly making bombers from 2-4 factories and send them to different sides, with attack move right from factory, in order to harras opponent expansions and attansion, or force him to spend interceptor fuel on patrol, or split his air force (so you can fight with your air only against half of his air) or making him build t1 aa everywhere... bombers will also work as scouts xD.

also possible to make them to fly couple circles on your territory before attack move, so any time you will have some bombers available, so you can micro them and target enemy radars or reclaiming engineers or shields that went offline, or maybe even t3 mobile arty that left it shield cover

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 11 Jun 2015, 21:47

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-11T21:19:13+02:00

Aurion wrote:
You need ground units versus ground units unless you get gunships (but you still need a significant ground force excluding some navy maps I guess). Patrolling bombers to defend stuff is really inefficient at least.

Auroras are not cost effective when defending against raiding early on, to defend against 2 mantis, without radar coverage and micro, you need 5 auroras or so. That's why I want an early defensive bomber, just to get those annoying raiders that are difficult to chase or got close to my auroras.

I just thought I could easily call upon them to help with big frontal assaults, but apparently that just doesn't work.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 11 Jun 2015, 21:19

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-11T20:30:19+02:00

Valki wrote:
I thought I was doing something wrong but they are just 'difficult units'. I usually set a few on patrol around my area for scouting and to defend isolated mexes, and as their numbers slowly build up I want to use them against enemy armies as well.

You need ground units versus ground units unless you get gunships (but you still need a significant ground force excluding some navy maps I guess). Patrolling bombers to defend stuff is really inefficient at least.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 11 Jun 2015, 20:30

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-11T17:03:49+02:00

Thanks, this clears things up for me.

I thought I was doing something wrong but they are just 'difficult units'. I usually set a few on patrol around my area for scouting and to defend isolated mexes, and as their numbers slowly build up I want to use them against enemy armies as well.

I think I will no longer build more than 1 or 2 in my standard force, and get gunships sooner, unless I have a plan.

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 11 Jun 2015, 17:03

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-11T15:57:24+02:00

Aeon bombers are really good because they have EMP, so for killing units the are actually pretty alright.
I agree though, if you are not going to build bombers to kill power or engineers then there is little point in building them unless you get air control early and you can afford to build bombers to kill units. Then go for it. Abuse that air control. ... But even then I would build a bit more power and get gunships anyway.

Statistics: Posted by Kalvirox — 11 Jun 2015, 15:57

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-11T15:56:41+02:00

Resin_Smoker wrote:
Well thats just it... Bombers are just one big IF.

Great if they hit but most often they wont without heavy micro. This is pretty much the case the the original author of this thread. Notice that he used multiple bombers without a single kill...

So either he needs to defend his bombers with a limited number of interceptors or he should refocus his efforts / mass else where.

Resin

Well, I'd hardly call it micro to provide the bombers with a target. But if that's the problem of OP then yes, with random targeting they do nothing meaningful.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 11 Jun 2015, 15:56

Re: How to use bombers without micro

2015-06-11T15:33:20+02:00

Well thats just it... Bombers are just one big IF.

Great if they hit but most often they wont without heavy micro. This is pretty much the case the the original author of this thread. Notice that he used multiple bombers without a single kill...

So either he needs to defend his bombers with a limited number of interceptors or he should refocus his efforts / mass else where.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 11 Jun 2015, 15:33