Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T15:06:36+02:00

We will close this thread with these wise words from Zlo. No change will be made to bombers in next patch except UEF bomber, but this endless thread had the benefit to make me discover why the UEF bomber is the one that fails at dropping the most, and it will be fixed.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 19 Jan 2014, 15:06

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:50:42+02:00

don't forget that there is micro of land units against air units, unmicroed bomber may not even drop bomb, or enemy just dodges all bombs, or spread out units and you just damage single tank with your bomber

allmost all bombers can be dodged if you scout them fast enought, even microed 1rst bomber may not deal any damage...

BUT ALSO thist topic was started ONLY because speed2 used OP strategy in gw against FunkOff, make 1rst air and call t1 reinforcements and walk with acu in enemy base, also speed2 great user of double/triple/quadriple/penta drops with bomber
that was frustrating for victim and he goes to forums to whine about bomber 1rst killing pgens cause pgens can't dodge, and against sera they also can't be repaided on 1hp to make them tank one more bomb

but as seraphim player petricpwnz mentoined, you just need to split your early power and scout if enemy makes 1rst bomber, and then youre prepared, only 1rst engyneed can die cause you failed scouting of bobmer, then you just dodge with engineers until bomber will die to aa or interceptor, then you will have big advantage usually.... only semi imba map for 1rst air is haven reef where you bomb reclaim, you still can easily loose even after that

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 19 Jan 2014, 14:50

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:41:04+02:00

Wild_Green wrote:
And i assume u, hovering over 1 pg is not worthy of its time.

It's not only just not worth the time, it's actually countered by just repairing the PGEN

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 19 Jan 2014, 14:41

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:39:32+02:00

my personal opinion on that topic:

is it a bug/cheat ?

- No i cant see why it is within normal game mechanic and units behaviour

Is it overpowered ?

-No, it is extremely annoying but it is no rocket science to counter it, nothing crazy needed to kill it. Sure the bomber can do heavy damage but it takes lots of micro and apm to manage that bomber, you can avoid a part of the damage by microing your units away and you can kill that bomber fairly easy

is it a bad game mechanic?

- I dont think so it awards ppl who micro their units nothing wrong with that

overall i didnt see a single replay showing how op that unit is. I am not convinced

Statistics: Posted by laPPen — 19 Jan 2014, 14:39

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:46:17+02:00

Wekke, please read my post. Carefully. And think about it. If u want to talk with me, first please listen to me. Unless u just want to make a monolog, then u are free to go. Im out.

Secend of all, why ur reply is wrong:

1. Ur saying about imaginary proves that bomber is bad (still no replay).

2. U keep on saying its bad, cus its powerful. Everything can be powerful. And thats not an argument if u do not mention the costs of strategy.

First bombers requires lot of time. By the time i micro 1 bomber, i can give orders to 3 arimes, 15 engies, and manage a base.
If u a re afraid to lose multiple pgs, split them. Simple. And i assume u, hovering over 1 pg is not worthy of its time. It just makes u keep on falling early on. Later on, hovering bomber is just not worthy of that (read 1 sentence over)

3. For god damn sake, first try this, experience it, how much does it really cost. Try to counter that, than make a statemets. U just saw 1 replay with hovering bomber, probably even not countered, and suddenly uve become an expert. Tml is also powerful if not countered. Kills all t2 mexes, power, even ACUs. So what? kill tml? Kill all game?

EDIT:
4. Im not saying it is useless. Im saying this is useful, and more important, it is easy counterable. And most important. Dont take from me feature i find fun to have, just becouse u dont know how face it.

Statistics: Posted by Wild_Green — 19 Jan 2014, 14:38

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:31:58+02:00

Wakke wrote:
Why would me watching replays of pro players not be valid input?

WHAT REPLAYS DUDE, you posted NOT A SINGLE one

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 19 Jan 2014, 14:31

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:28:15+02:00

Wakke wrote:
I knew you would all jump on that comment. Why would me watching replays of pro players not be valid input? Also, what are you guys claiming? That is totally useless to do this trick? How about not flying over AA by restricting your flight path, for one?

All I am saying is:
1) it's a bad mechanic
2) the amount of benefit you can gain from it should determine the priority of fixing this. I am under the assumption at least *some* benefit can be gained from it. If not, I'd like to see you make an argument for that.

I'm arguing that there is a happy medium between "totally useless" and "needs to be fixed". Something doesn't have to be either useless or broken. I'm saying it can yield benefits (i.e. not useless) BUT it is not broken either (i.e. radically unfair). I don't think I need to justify that it can provide some benefit, rather I only need to justify why it doesn't always and undoubtedly result in net gain for the player.

Statistics: Posted by Coffee nut — 19 Jan 2014, 14:28

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:19:47+02:00

I knew you would all jump on that comment. Why would me watching replays of pro players not be valid input? Also, what are you guys claiming? That it is totally useless to do this trick? How about not flying over AA by restricting your flight path, for one?

All I am saying is:
1) it's a bad mechanic
2) the amount of benefit you can gain from it should determine the priority of fixing this. I am under the assumption at least *some* benefit can be gained from it. If not, I'd like to see you make an argument for that.

Statistics: Posted by Wakke — 19 Jan 2014, 14:19

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:07:31+02:00

Reaper Zwei wrote:
@Wakke
you realize that Gyle gets who knows how many replays and picks what he thinks are the most exciting right?

and even given that he hasn't even showed the one he's thinking off (because i cant remember one personally, and i probably have seen most of them despite the 1h + ones

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 19 Jan 2014, 14:07

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T14:05:35+02:00

@Wakke
you realize that Gyle gets who knows how many replays and picks what he thinks are the most exciting right?

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 19 Jan 2014, 14:05

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T13:58:26+02:00

Wakke wrote:
@Wild_Green
However, basing myself on several of Gyle's replays, this seems not to be the case (ie, it can and is being used to gain advantage).

(I highlighted for emphasis)

The debate surely shouldn't be centred around whether it "could" (i.e. whether using this strategy has the probability of gaining an advantage over your opponent) but whether it "would" (i.e. someone sufficiently skilled and can triple bomb automatically get an advantage from using first bomber). It is quite easy to argue the first, in that a lot of things "can" give you an advantage, such as first jester, first lab, map specific bo, etc, but to convince us of the latter it's a lot harder; it's not the case that every time first bomber is used by a skilled player, that person will automatically get a comfortable win.

Statistics: Posted by Coffee nut — 19 Jan 2014, 13:58

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T13:57:35+02:00

Wakke wrote:
@Wild_Green

If it was indeed totally useless to use multi-dropping, I would agree that removing this mechanic would be low priority, as no one would use it (except to joke/troll). However, basing myself on several of Gyle's replays, this seems not to be the case (ie, it can and is being used to gain advantage).

I feel, like u dont really read, or dont really understand, what am i saying there.

Statistics: Posted by Wild_Green — 19 Jan 2014, 13:57

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T13:51:54+02:00

hell dude
where are those replays???

This feels like IceSomething's:
"But pro player X said"
argument.

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 19 Jan 2014, 13:51

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T13:48:01+02:00

@Wild_Green

If it was indeed totally useless to use multi-dropping, I would agree that removing this mechanic would be low priority, as no one would use it (except to joke/troll). However, basing myself on several of Gyle's replays, this seems not to be the case (ie, it can and is being used to gain advantage).

Statistics: Posted by Wakke — 19 Jan 2014, 13:48

Re: Bomber double/triple drop

2014-01-19T13:35:58+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
Lu_Xun_17 wrote:If no one complains, thats how it usually ends.

You start to understand how a balance community works...

So now im gonna complain a bit.

Yes, i use bomber micro. Why? becouse it is fun. And i dont agree to take that experience from me, just becouse some people are frustrated to see something they cannot do.

Im observing this topic for quite a time, not really saying anything, becouse i found it ridiculous. People crying about something, cus lost to something, got mad so now it is IMBA-OP-EXPLOITING-STRATEGY-KILLING-ALL-THE-GAME.

And now im gonna mention something That Sheppard is doing during all the conversation.

Please show me 1 (one) replay, that actually proves that the bomber is super-iba-op. ONE.

As far as i see all the discuss here it looks like:

- Kill the double bombing ability
- Why?
- Its imba, kills the game, its bad
- Why?
- This is bad, this is wrong, this breaks the game.
- Ok but how exactly, please show me.

To all people, that are actually fighting against this: Please, think few minute before commenting this.

How often do u actually see this?

But seriously, this is question that ive read here like 20 times, without a single answer.

Have u ever tryed it?

Yes, im saying this to you, Anaryl, im saying this to all of You, that are fighting it off. Have u ever tryed to do this? Have u ever failed this? Have u ever seen what is the cost of such micro, how much time does it consume, and how much skill does it need to work. Have u ever feel, how painfully it is when it fails, while its easy to counter?

Have u ever tryed to actually counter this?

I guess no. So how can u make opinion on such thing? For now ure someone, who just got mad facing this. Yes, it is innoying, becous it forces to change ur plans. It forces u to do something diffrent than u usually do. It forces to forget your habits and improvise. It forces changes. And people doesnt like changes.

When i make my opinion on something, i listen carefully both sides. I at lest try to take look at both of them. For now, i can only see planety of people that want to take away from me something becouse they simply doesnt like it.

Non of them showed a smallest amount of interest how expensive is that, or simply how to counter and face it. "I dont like this, so this is bad, so this must be removed. End of story."

First, i found this coversation hilarious. Now it just makes me sad.

Statistics: Posted by Wild_Green — 19 Jan 2014, 13:35