Forged Alliance Forever

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T22:53:00+02:00

Outside the scope of this patch.

I know i only write it because zock start with air veterancy.

I know that would be need reworked vet level for units with bigger mass value, if it will be only rewrite value (manually ) i will make it, but dont know how to code

Imho mass value would be more intuitive, bigger units more vet after 1 week with this it will total native.

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Jun 2013, 22:53

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T22:30:18+02:00

Zep, do you mean the vet adjustment for air is outside the scope of this patch of were you just replying to Ithils idea?

Statistics: Posted by pip — 24 Jun 2013, 22:30

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T22:23:14+02:00

Ithilis_Quo wrote:
when you talk about vet balance, why dont take veterancy balance absolute and dont take it not on tech level but on mass cost, so more difficulty is destroy T3 battleship and 9x T1 scout, and veterancy value are same, thats ridiculous unfair.

Outside the scope of this patch.

I had that idea before falling back to tech level, as it requires a total revamp of all the unit levels. It's a really, really, really huge job.
Also not really intuitive and predictable for the player.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 24 Jun 2013, 22:23

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T22:12:39+02:00

when you talk about vet balance, why dont take veterancy balance absolute and dont take it not on tech level but on mass cost, so more difficulty is destroy T3 battleship and 9x T1 scout, and veterancy value are same, thats ridiculous unfair.

My suggestion is take it on 2% of mass cost destroyed units (and 0,5% of exp) and then for ships would be fair value and fix all this veterancy problems. Second best value for vet is price (the best one is dmg taken but it will be crazy hard to code it, and would it need new balance value).

Example: something kill a striker 56x0.02 = 1.12 veterancy point; kill T2 havy tank 200x0.02 = 4 point; kill T1 Land Scout 8x0.02 = 0.16 point, T2 = destroyer 2250x0.02 = 45 points; T4 GC = 22500x0.005 = 112,5
Reason: In the early stages of the game would veterancy levels were about the same as now, the difference would be seen particularly in T2+ level at which the current veterancy system is not optimal balancing. When push with experimentals it pays to focus on weak units to increase veteranci, but what is the rationale, since the difficulty of their destruction is minimal, so I think that veterancy should increase proportionally with dificulty their destruction, which best represents the unit cost expenses. The difference would be more justice, and also in a more logical strategy that would focus on a strong drive and not to faint. Also, if the ACU snipe experimental with OC reached by pass the full veterancy, but what I do not blame you since it is a fair reward for the risk to which they embark. then we would need raise exp level of experimentals (2-3x), for dont exp so fast, and make problem with that wht would occur

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 24 Jun 2013, 22:12

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T19:19:59+02:00

The bug for planes is only when they are killed while landed, they count twice for xp (as air unit, and ground unit). It's a marginal problem, but affect all planes. That's why killing grounded planes with land units is very profitable...

As for giving more xp for ships, the code is only looking at tech levels, it can probably look at more precise catergories, we just have to make sure xp is not counted twice.

However, I don't agree with the values, they are too high. For instance, killing a cheap t3 unit like t3 sub and gain 32xp when you used ground fire from a battleship, or if for every 3 t2 sub or just one t3 sub an Atlantis kills, it provides 1 vet level. Or a megalith underwater gaining crazy vet for killing t2 subs, or defending a base from land.
If then you make distinctions between unit types wether sub or ship, or battleship or missile ships, it becomes too complicated.

What could be simple, if possible, is to state that naval units are worth a tech higher : t1 ship = 3xp, like t2 land, t2 ship = 6xp, like t3 land, t3 ship = 9 xp, to keep things reasonable. If you make 12, it means a t3 sub killing another t3 sub will insta vet, it's not good to get a level for killing just one unit equal to your level, 2 should be minimum.

As for veterancy problems for air units, it's only a problem for Restorers and Continentals, because they can get vet 5 easily and gain significant hp buff. A Continental gets a vet level (= 450 hp) for every t2 or t3 unit killed, or just 3 interceptors. For a unit with 260 air DPS, that's very easy. That's the most blatant WTF veterancy problem for air units. ASF don't get lot of hp bonus for each vet since the nerf (+170 hp is not much).

Statistics: Posted by pip — 24 Jun 2013, 19:19

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T18:46:53+02:00

Zock wrote:
The vet on the restorer is currently much more meaningfull then the vet on the ASF, as restorers get easier vet of killing ASF then vice versa. The vet nerf will hurt restorers more then ASF. (if it works as intended)

Makes sense.

Another idea (probably terrible): I just took a look at the UEF ASF and the restorer, and they have the same regen at all vet levels. Maybe we could give ASF's a small regen bonus on the first vet?

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 24 Jun 2013, 18:46

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T18:33:37+02:00

The vet on the restorer is currently much more meaningfull then the vet on the ASF, as restorers get easier vet of killing ASF then vice versa. The vet nerf will hurt restorers more then ASF. (if it works as intended)

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 24 Jun 2013, 18:33

Re: T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T18:18:10+02:00

I would suggest leaving ASF vet levels where they are, because they are weak against Restorers since they got nerfed. Vetted ASF's would have a better chance vs. Restorers. Alternatively, if you nerf their vet (since ASF's can kill their mass in restorers - 3.5:1), you will need to nerf the restorer some too IMHO.

Statistics: Posted by RoundTabler — 24 Jun 2013, 18:18

T3 Air vet

2013-06-24T18:00:26+02:00

While checking the values of t3 air vet, i found a bug:

T3 Airplanes give 12 exp, instead of 6.

But even with 6, the vet limit of the t3 airunits is very low. An ASF has first vet at 6 = 1 t3 airunit kill. The Restorer needs only 2.

The same goes for anti-ground planes, that can get very fast vet with the increased exp of t2/t3 units.

I'd suggest to increase the vet levels of all t3 airunits by 100%. The Solace propably excluded, if the exp value of ships dont get changed (see below).

It might also make sense to adjust the exp value of ships. 3 exp for a destroyer, and 6 for a battleship aren't really good rewards for killing such powerfull units. Navy can effectivly only get vet at killing land units, not at killing ships.

I'd suggest

t1 ships 3 exp
t2 ships 10 exp
t3 ships 32 exp (= 2 vet for destroyer, 1 vet for battleships)

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 24 Jun 2013, 18:00