Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-11T15:48:16+02:00

VoiceofReason wrote:
jkleli wrote:...Mass-for-mass t3 bots have always been better than exp's sure. But the limiting factor was the production. You would not be able to spam t3 bots without an enormous investment in factories and drones. Now you don't have to invest in factories and drones, so t3 spam is easier, and therefore more powerful. It isn't all about mass-for-mass.

Why in the hell would anybody even build a spiderbot anymore? Now that mass producing t3 is so viable, you can just run it over with t3 bots.
This "land unit spam" play is a lot of fun, but that is what the T1 stage is all about! I think the way the game changes in the t2 and t3 stage is awesome!(less units, unit placement is more important)

I agree with this guy 100%

spiderbot != sniperbot

sniperbot have a higher range, so in low numbers and enough space you can kite. Or you can use them as defensive units in conjunction with (base) shields.
spiderbot can counter a combined army (t1/t2 /t3) attack, it can vet faster than it will die

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 11 Jun 2013, 15:48

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-11T14:16:17+02:00

Why in the hell would anybody even build a spiderbot anymore?

Why in the hell would anybody built a sniperbot before?

This has nothing to do with engymod, this unit was just not worth it.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 11 Jun 2013, 14:16

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-11T09:33:53+02:00

jkleli wrote:
...Mass-for-mass t3 bots have always been better than exp's sure. But the limiting factor was the production. You would not be able to spam t3 bots without an enormous investment in factories and drones. Now you don't have to invest in factories and drones, so t3 spam is easier, and therefore more powerful. It isn't all about mass-for-mass.

Why in the hell would anybody even build a spiderbot anymore? Now that mass producing t3 is so viable, you can just run it over with t3 bots.
This "land unit spam" play is a lot of fun, but that is what the T1 stage is all about! I think the way the game changes in the t2 and t3 stage is awesome!(less units, unit placement is more important)

I agree with this guy 100%

Statistics: Posted by VoiceofReason — 11 Jun 2013, 09:33

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-11T09:11:54+02:00

id rather snnipe mexes than a hq

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 11 Jun 2013, 09:11

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-11T08:38:32+02:00

Golol wrote:
it doesnt change it drastically. i have never seen any difference in engymod and normal games.
if you have 30-40 engis around a t3 factory i think paying 3000 for another factory or 800( dont know t3 nornal fac mass cost) isnt much of a difference.
same for t2.
the only change it does is that you can get tech far from your base easier but that doesnt happen often.
by just keeping to play the game like always youre no at a disadvantage

Actually, that was the first thing I thought of. It makes it easy to upgrade a hidden fac, behind enemy lines, for TML snipe or SAB construction.

The one thing I don't like about engy-mod is the HQ dynamic. I think it introduces another level of strategic complexity, and an opportunity for noob bashing. With HQ snipes. Now with the sniping of a single building, a players entire industrial machine can be rendered ineffective.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 11 Jun 2013, 08:38

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T22:55:23+02:00

You're getting ahead of yourself. I personally think what might end up happening is Experimentals will be buffed so they still perform the same role. I really enjoy engymod because when I first started playing this game I thought you could spam t2 like t1 and t3 like t1. I was dissapointed when I found out this wasn't true. Who doesn't want giant t2 wars? Or t3 wars?

My point is this: The changes to the game are way more positive than negative. And I can assure you, any serious issues will be addressed.

Statistics: Posted by Astrofoo — 10 Jun 2013, 22:55

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T21:42:59+02:00

Ok we are going to have to agree to disagree. I am not very knowledgeable when it comes to FAF, because of a lack of time in the community and a unfortunately low # games played. BUT with all due respect;

I think the game was fine before. Mass-for-mass t3 bots have always been better than exp's sure. But the limiting factor was the production. You would not be able to spam t3 bots without an enormous investment in factories and drones. Now you don't have to invest in factories and drones, so t3 spam is easier, and therefore more powerful. It isn't all about mass-for-mass.

Why in the hell would anybody even build a spiderbot anymore? Now that mass producing t3 is so viable, you can just run it over with t3 bots.
This "land unit spam" play is a lot of fun, but that is what the T1 stage is all about! I think the way the game changes in the t2 and t3 stage is awesome!(less units, unit placement is more important)

My thoughts on the subject are pretty disorganized, but I can't help but feel like I have a point..
Do what you will though, because we voted on it and if everybody else likes it then I am wasting my time fighting it.

Edit: I agree with Mycen^^^

Statistics: Posted by jkleli — 10 Jun 2013, 21:42

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T21:41:05+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
Only units that are not made are changed so they can be into the game. Think of what you've used a year ago, and what you use now..

Actually, what I think of is the people pushing to have the Percival's range dramatically decreased. A perfect example of what he's afraid of. As far as snipers specifically, I would think what disturbed him was the often-repeated idea that sniperbots' rework should focus on making them a good counter to Percivals/Bricks rather than making them good, well... snipers.

When people start balancing things it is far too easy to fall into the "this is the counter to that" design philosophy trap. All the more so when only a handful of players are involved in the decision making and get caught up in the numbers.

I think cooler heads have prevailed each time in regards to not fixing what isn't broken though, right? And it's not like the changes are set it stone anyway...

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 10 Jun 2013, 21:41

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T21:10:25+02:00

jkleli wrote:
It seemed that the role of the unit was being changed, along with a myriad of other units,

Only units that are not made are changed so they can be into the game. Think of what you've used a year ago, and what you use now..

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 10 Jun 2013, 21:10

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T21:06:47+02:00

Yeah all this remebered me a great part of the history that hitted all of us ..... It begins in France some time ago ... groups of peoples decided to abolish the the kingship not for the good of the people but for their own... but because they could not do this alone enrole the people and make them believe that when the king will be gone all will be better which of this never happens .... Till nowaday this "group of person" are in charge and they rapped us and still rapping us even worst that the king himself will have done or what 1000000 of them will have not be able to achive ...

Just learn to not be a fucking sheep that follow the other with the believe "If they all follow they should be right" ....

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 10 Jun 2013, 21:06

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T20:42:27+02:00

Hmm ok, i will play balance testing more and try to get used to it. You guys are doing a good job developing it by the way, so keep up the good work.

I posted before reading the rules too, so sorry about that. The thread that inspired me to post this was about sniperbots. It seemed that the role of the unit was being changed, along with a myriad of other units, which worries me. I like the game too much to see it be turned on its head.

Statistics: Posted by jkleli — 10 Jun 2013, 20:42

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T18:54:20+02:00

^^^ This. I remember sandboxing about a year ago to show that mass for mass t3 beats t4. It was just a pointless exercise because there was no good way to mass produce t3 because of pathfinding. The only way to pull it off was a crapload of drones or hives and 2 t3 factories, and the roll off time was still a bugger.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 10 Jun 2013, 18:54

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T09:14:46+02:00

People figured out how good T3 spam was.

Engiemod came out.

Correlation does not equal causation

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 10 Jun 2013, 09:14

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T09:04:47+02:00

I don't see why you are so concerned about T3 bot spam, the idea of Engy mod is just that you take what previously has been just a single factory with a crapload of buildpower around it and turn it into multiple factories with little to no engineers around. As far as I know T3 bots are neither cheaper nor easier to build, you just don't have to clutter your base with Engys now.

Statistics: Posted by Kamicase — 10 Jun 2013, 09:04

Re: Can we please pump the brakes a little bit?

2013-06-10T08:02:01+02:00

You have three month to get used to it in balance testing mod, not to mention the fact that it was a featured mod already triable since februrary. I really don't think 6 month preparation (call it beta if you want) is too fast.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 10 Jun 2013, 08:02