Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-16T15:19:37+02:00

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I've been game testing this further. This time playing Sera vs Aeon. I can say that Sera benefit much more from micro then do Aeon. To see just how effective Seraphim is vs Aeon is scary

Aeon's power is in their neat high tech bombardment tools. But when it comes to winning the sea, they have a natural disadvantage. I will need to retract those previous statements

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 16 Jun 2013, 15:19

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-14T23:17:13+02:00

Firewall wrote:
Guys, my post above is based on in game experience, and actual results.

So if your experience is so much greater why arent you beating the shit out if us, just to show us how wrong we are?
seriously ppl with less than 500 naval games or under 1800 rating should just not decide how the game should be balanced.

Statistics: Posted by ICKEN — 14 Jun 2013, 23:17

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-14T21:45:14+02:00

You guys haven't played Aeon navy since 2 month or what? All Aeon ships shoot straight now, even if microed. They may not hit, but they shoot in the right direction.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 14 Jun 2013, 21:45

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-14T21:05:48+02:00

da_monstr wrote:
I must agree with dstojkov there:
have you ever tried microing the Aeon destroyer or battleship? Then you know that if it turns too much, its shots are all over the place, not even in the general vicinity of target. Plus, oblivion cannon shots are just SOOOOOOOOO slow, you can actually avoid them with units like the cybran destroyer.

Guys, my post above is based on in game experience, and actual results. Yes microing Aeon Destroyers and Battleships has taught me that shots will miss when the unit fires. The missing is caused by the turrets turn rate being slower than the vessels turn rate. Which I have learnt to counter by doing a couple of things.

1. Assisting the turret by moving into the shot, not away from it.
2. Timing zig movements for when the destroyer is not firing. Essentially you move straight & fire, zig, straight & fire, etc.
2. Closing distance to minimise the projectile travel, and hence, posibility of a miss.
3. Avoiding the use of Destroyers in some siduations and using submarines instead.
4. Using Asymetric capabilities, like hover craft and torpeedo bombers.

You should also note that Cybran T2 ships suffer from the same micro issues. As it is quite possible to bleed off a lot of Cybran damage with micro. The advantage at least here is that they have a distinct fire cycle, giving a clear window for directional changes.

I will admit that the results I achieve with Aeon are not common, and that Aeon is a more difficult faction to use effectively. If you want to buff Aeon. I'm not going to stop you. Believe they are inferiour if you wish, until you face me on Seatons, and experience changes your mind.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 14 Jun 2013, 21:05

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-14T14:47:44+02:00

I must agree with dstojkov there:
have you ever tried microing the Aeon destroyer or battleship? Then you know that if it turns too much, its shots are all over the place, not even in the general vicinity of target. Plus, oblivion cannon shots are just SOOOOOOOOO slow, you can actually avoid them with units like the cybran destroyer.

Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 14 Jun 2013, 14:47

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-14T14:14:56+02:00

I don't know if you are serious guys ....

The topic is to buff aeons ... but each proposal is denied ... So this is a sign that you further consider aeon OP as it is !

No seriously navy aeon suck so hard that when I read the post above ... That make me laugh !

Navy physics has to be revisited aeon miss to much lack of precision and to much arc turreted weapon. Seriously take a look to my mod and particularly to the physics this improve a lot the game play allowing to dodge a little make it a featured one even if you don't like it ( Zep and his friends ) you will at least become another point of view of this game

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 14 Jun 2013, 14:14

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-14T06:38:54+02:00

I would also be cautious for buffing Aeon navy too much. They are not under-powered. They are under-rated. Here is a run down on the three different matchups, and how Aeon would counter.

vs Seraphim
Seraphim Destroyer (poorly microed) >> Kite with Aeon Destroyer to use firing range disparity. Get Battleship ASAP.
Seraphim Destroyer (well microed) >> Counter with massed T1 and T2 Subs. The T1 subs are useful because they do more DPS, and are offered some protection by the T2 Sub torpeedo defence. (Aeon Subs have better defence then Cybran), >> Alternative counter is to use Frigate spam and Aeon destroyer to close range - mitigating the firing inaccuracies, with point blank fire (not highly recommended).
Seraphim Cruiser >> Counter with Vespers (T2 Subs). Sneak around the destroyer firing line and take them out.
Seraphim T3 Submarine >> Counter with T2 Mobile shield spam, and T2 Subs >> Alternatively, bring a Battleship into range and then use T3 Torpeedo bomber or Battleship ground fire >> Alternatively, thwart T3 Sub by avoiding all naval units, and use only hovercraft.
Seraphim T3 mobile shield >> Counter with T3 Shield Absolver.
Seraphim Battleship >> Counter with Torpeedo Bombers, Hover Tank spam, Submarines, or microed destroyers at close range. Smother fire with T2 mobile shield spam.

vs UEF
T1 Subs >> Counter with T2 Sub
Destroyer >> Counter with T2 Sub, or Aeon Destroyer using range disparity.
Cruiser >> Thwart with Aeon Cruiser and counter with Destroyer, Sub or Battleship.
Coopers (Torpeedo Boat) >> Counter with Destroyer or Battleship direct fire. >> Alternatively, counter with T2 mobile shield spam and T2 Submarines.
Bulwark (Shield Boat) >> Counter with T3 Shield Absolver **This unit is exclusive to Aeon, and will destroy the UEF's main advantage.
Adlantis Submarine >> Counter with T2 mobile shield and T2 submarine
Battlecruiser >> Counter with Torpeedo bombers, Battleship or Submarines of any kind (it's ASW capabilities are not that great, and it's AA is non-existant).
Battleship (not escorted) >> Counter with Torpeedo bombers, Air to ground, and Submarines
Battleship (fully escorted) >> Pray! ... No seriously, counter all the above simultaniously, and preferably with a nuke as well >> Alternatively, counter with standoff and manouver. Try to isolate the Battleships from the escorts, and use speed. Get equal battleship numbers, and close range. To exploit the Aeon Battleships higher DPS. (This is the most difficult challenge for Aeon navy)

Note - The key strength of the UEF navy is in the COMBINATION of units. Any particular unit if spammed is easily countered.

vs Cybran
T2 Subs >> Equal with T2 Subs + T1 Sub spam
Destroyer >> Equal with Frigate spam, Destroyers, mobile shields and good micro . Slugging it out at close range, will probably be necessary to counter the early stealth. Get Battleship ASAP.
Cruiser >> Counter with Destroyers and mobile shields
Stealth Boat >> Counter with Eye of Rianne, T3 intel structure. ** (This building defeats Cybran's main game on the water).
Battleship >> Counter with Battleship and Destroyer.
Gunship >> Initially counter with Cruisers. In larger numbers, get hovering flak and mobile shield generators.

As you can see Aeon is qualified to destroy the fleets of every other faction. As Aeon units are very good, but have a single focus. A sucessful counter consists in a combination, rather than a single unit.

Great Things About the Aeon Fleet
1. They get a T1 AA boat with meaningful AA. Whereas every other T1 naval AA is token only. Attack boats can actually bring down planes.
2. They are complemented with a full range of amphibious land units.
3. They have a missile ship, which is a totally awesome bombardment unit.
4. They have the Tempest. Which is not only a great battleship. It is also a naval facoty with no roll off time. So when assisted, it can churn out units faster than anything else on the water.
5. Their Shield Absolver (which BTW is a hover unit) will totally mitigate any attempts at shield countermeasures, on the water. Which makes the Aeon fleet even more deadly.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 14 Jun 2013, 06:38

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-06T16:41:49+02:00

I have a replay showcasing some aeon navy, not really top level, but it's a useful tool or the analysis nonetheless. I'll edit it in.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 06 Jun 2013, 16:41

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-06T09:23:39+02:00

Instead of buffing the Tempest torp dps, why not change the weapon to depth charges?

Statistics: Posted by Icy — 06 Jun 2013, 09:23

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-06T07:08:39+02:00

ehm not sure about this and i just saw it by the way so someone shohld test.
i think the tempest has some aming problems.
a few times when i tested it it just kept shooting over its target what really reduced its dps

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 06 Jun 2013, 07:08

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-05T22:39:26+02:00

Ionic wrote:
Their battleship is the best anti-ship battleship

does not matter when your oponent has battleships that outrange you...

Ionic wrote:
They have the best torpedo defense

this is so untrue. the defence actually sucks compared to that of an cybran destroyer, cybran stealth boat or that of a uef torp boat. stop reading the stats and get some game experience...

Ionic wrote:
the largest range by far direct fire ship the tempest

its also the unit you can outmicro the easiest in the game

Ionic wrote:
T1 best Sea since they have dedicated ships and the Aurora.

aurora suck in naval battles. aeon frigs suck in frig vs frig battle

Ionic wrote:
T3 is 2nd arguably with UEF beating them out, due to torp. bombers, mobile shields, best navy battleship

my opinion: their battleship is by far the worst
uef have shieldboats too

since mobile shields are maybe an option again they will be stronger ofc. but i doubt 100 shields will be that effective than in 3599

Ionic wrote:
T4 is the best again with the Tempest and CZAR vs Navy engineers

czar vs navy engineers!!!!

Statistics: Posted by ICKEN — 05 Jun 2013, 22:39

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-05T21:06:26+02:00

Aeon has awesome anti torpedo and T2 subs can kill T3 subs if used right... Also, ground fire or the mentioned torpedo bombers easily defeat T3 subs before there are 10+.

Aeon has an equally good Navy at this point with all others, varying with tech level. Their hover Shields if micro'd and swapped are insurmountable. Their battleship is the best anti-ship battleship. They have the best torpedo defense, and the best air support as well as the largest range by far direct fire ship the tempest.

T1 best Sea since they have dedicated ships and the Aurora.

T2 is the worst maybe not if you have mobile shields

T3 is 2nd arguably with UEF beating them out, due to torp. bombers, mobile shields, best navy battleship

T4 is the best again with the Tempest and CZAR vs Navy engineers

The only problem is most Navy fights are won or lost at the T2 win then reclaim stage.

Statistics: Posted by Ionic — 05 Jun 2013, 21:06

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-05T22:22:49+02:00

laPPen wrote:
We should wait and watch how the shieldbuff works out before buffing aeon navy too mutch.
T3 torp bombers are strong enough imo they should rather get nerfed hp. Did u ever try to kill those torp bombers with cyb cruisers? Uts a joke how many shots they can take. Buffing the tempest a little would be ok imo. Maybe make the big gun move a bit faster it is painfull slow.

i agree with lappen in all points!

one problem aeon have is that they can not really defend against sera sub spam because the tempest who is the only unit that outranges t3 subs does not have enough dps. it is too expensive to just build it against subs. in lategame when t3 subs really become dangerous it is very hard to kill them with air.....

i suggest to give the tempest more torp dps so that it is at least on the torp-dps/mass level of an atlantis.

Statistics: Posted by ICKEN — 05 Jun 2013, 20:12

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-03T20:40:53+02:00

ZaphodX wrote:
AU_Manta-Aoid wrote:it doesn't stand to reason to have one that is significantly more useless than 'useless', in comparison.

Faction diversity.

Indeed. Faction diversity has been used to justify seraphim units being in ever way worse than their counterparts.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 03 Jun 2013, 20:40

Re: Aeon and sea warfare

2013-06-03T20:35:06+02:00

We should wait and watch how the shieldbuff works out before buffing aeon navy too mutch.
T3 torp bombers are strong enough imo they should rather get nerfed hp. Did u ever try to kill those torp bombers with cyb cruisers? Uts a joke how many shots they can take. Buffing the tempest a little would be ok imo. Maybe make the big gun move a bit faster it is painfull slow.

Statistics: Posted by laPPen — 03 Jun 2013, 20:35