Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Snipers

2013-06-01T21:57:26+02:00

you cant really kite with a gc or a chicken.
the gc might have a chance if the percies are spread out (in my tests 6-7 always survived) and the chicken if they are bunched and it can get like 5-6 with 1 of the big killer balls.
and when gc and chicken get buffed they are too strong against monkeylord and all other stuff in my opinion

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 01 Jun 2013, 21:57

Re: Snipers

2013-06-01T21:45:18+02:00

t3 has always been more effective than the close range t4. Nothing new there...

And t3 does not rape t4 like many believe. Most people are stupid with their t4 and just charge it in, where it gets surrounded and dies easily. If you keep it at range, t4 is still quite effective, and a great compliment to any army.

It is just not a one man, one click, game ender any more.

Statistics: Posted by CrazedChariot — 01 Jun 2013, 21:45

Re: Snipers

2013-06-01T20:13:11+02:00

i dont see a way to buff gc and chicken against percievals without making them op in every other situation. percies just rape xps by mass. the only way would be to nerf them imo. but i and mayn others dont want that

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 01 Jun 2013, 20:13

Re: Snipers

2013-06-01T20:09:18+02:00

Uwot mate?

I was just saying that IF Engiemod makes Percivals a problem, the solution is NOT to make Snipers the default counter to them, it is to change the Experimentals with respect to the entire T3 tier, as has always CORRECTLY happened in the past. Snipers DO need this buff, but not to the point where they become Aeon's main late-T3 assault unit.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 01 Jun 2013, 20:09

Re: Snipers

2013-06-01T09:50:46+02:00

but why should the old balance be restored? its a basic rule that t3 beats t4 now.
even when xps get owned by percies and bricks (not sure but i think also by harbs and othuums) they still have advantages and are being built. if you reverse that uef (monkeylord is not too weak against gc and chicken) will be weak in lategame since theybhave nothing to counter the gc. and then people will want to make a unit a proper counter. spearheads? i dont think so.
and engimod doesnt make such a difference that the whole balance shouldnt be restored

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 01 Jun 2013, 09:50

Re: Snipers

2013-06-01T06:19:29+02:00

Golol wrote:
i think you can just keep the snipers excactly how they are and aeon and sera both get 170 dps and 75 range.
any child will be able to counter them with t3 mobile arty but atleast aeon and sera dont get raped on t3 land.
what else are you gonna use to counter the percievals? harbs and othuums?

No.

Ythotha and Galactic Colossus is how you SHOULD counter them. Stop attempting to change something which doesn't need to be changed instead of doing what does need to be done.

Over the years, as people have slowly realised it was better to surround a Factory with Engineers rather than build more Factories, and as people have realised that Land factories have rolloff time problems, the land Experimentals have been nerfed, nerfed, and nerfed again as T3 masses on land became less and less and less used. This is a sequence of events, a slow progression over 5 or 6 YEARS.

The Percival was designed as a tool to give the UEF a fighting chance of defending themselves against the Megalith, Ythotha and Galactic Colossus. Not to counter them, to give a chance. The Cybran got the Brick because the Monkeylord was also beaten out by those two experimentals in the beginning. However, as T3 usage dropped and game more freqently saw bases attacked by these Experimentals defended by massed T2 rather than T3, the Experimentals were seen as too strong, and nerfed. They were balanced against the viable production of T3, rather than against T3 Mass for Mass.

Now, we CAN sink Mass into T3 as fast as we can into those experimentals, and the changes of many many years of balance need to be reversed. The Megalith, Ythotha, and Galactic Colossus, and also the Monkeylord, need to be progressively increased in power until the balance of power is correct once more. Sniperbots never were, and never should be the answer to Percivals, they should be used to snipe Mexs and ACUs, and in small numbers as fire support for your army, not as an army in and of themselves.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 01 Jun 2013, 06:19

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T20:19:22+02:00

Replays.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 31 May 2013, 20:19

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T20:14:54+02:00

i think you can just keep the snipers excactly how they are and aeon and sera both get 170 dps and 75 range.
any child will be able to counter them with t3 mobile arty but atleast aeon and sera dont get raped on t3 land.
what else are you gonna use to counter the percievals? harbs and othuums?

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 31 May 2013, 20:14

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T20:09:40+02:00

Percy never needed a nerf. It is supposed to be the strongest, most efficient of the land T3 assault units, and was designed specifically to be just that, in order to make up for the UEF's lack of an assault experimental. T3 Snipers never were, and SHOULD NEVER be used to counter Percivals, that is not their intended role. I don't even believe Percivals are an issue anyway, people just need to grow some brains and realise that once the UEF can produce them en-masse you should not be trying to push through on the ground anyway without a T4. Percivals are big, slow, cumbersome units. Bomb them.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 31 May 2013, 20:09

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T19:09:36+02:00

It's probably counterable, it's just regressive for the gameplay.

The best counter is ofc to use cliffs effectively.

The main problem is that we started from a percival spam problem .... to arrive to a sniper buff + T3 vet nerf+ arty nerf + brick nerf + xp buff.

Actually only a percy nerf would solve all the problems...

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 31 May 2013, 19:09

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T17:25:53+02:00

Yes.
But you have to realize it's actually a buff from the current situation.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 31 May 2013, 17:25

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T17:04:32+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
ShadowKnight wrote:Well that's exactly my point! The whole point of a Sniper unit is that it never, ever misses. The unit would FEEL better, more complete, if it simple never fired unless is was going to hit the target. It should not be able to fire when moving at all, because it cannot do so accurately without being OP.

Ok, but I can't do that, and the current solution works.

If I can write a script which results in favourable, well polished behaviour, will you promise to at least take a serious look at it?

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 31 May 2013, 17:04

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T17:01:50+02:00

That replay didn't show much : the ACU the snipers killed was alone, attacked by another ACU and lots of t1 units. He had no units, he would have died to any t3 units at that stage of the game.

However, the 5 snipers that went south all alone fed veterancy to the Monkeylord in no time, without shooting at it, almost giving him a free vet level .
Maybe the vet threshold of 40 is a tad too low for the Monkeylord and it can be upped to 50 to avoid too easy vet levels. We shall see with more games if it's necessary.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 31 May 2013, 17:01

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T16:05:32+02:00

I would like some games before having a final opinion about it.

It's new, people are not prepared for that, but I don't think it's that OP against ACU.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 31 May 2013, 16:05

Re: Snipers

2013-05-31T15:57:15+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
Hamstie wrote:My snipers had lots of frontline troops to protect them, so that did help. I think because the ACU and percy are similar ( large,slow and beefy unit) the snipers now also make great acu killers.

They are. But it's probably the guy fault for running around while snipers are on the field. Same with percies.

Thats true. I just think that now sniperbots can become very viable to snipe ACU's. They dont have the HP of percies and bricks, but they dont need that because of their huge range and fast speed. Is that good or bad? I dont know, I leave that up to you.

Statistics: Posted by Hamstie — 31 May 2013, 15:57