Forged Alliance Forever

Re: random map generator

2014-03-16T00:56:46+02:00

Ok, I gave it a try http://www.faforever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=7018&p=69079

Statistics: Posted by Duck_42 — 16 Mar 2014, 00:56

Re: random map generator

2013-09-24T07:49:55+02:00

I just wanted to comment: random map generation as an idea is not unfeasible in the least, and functions that are all about random generation of numbers / terrain / height-maps happen to be well-researched and implemented. Here are some sites that focus on random terrain generation (and some of the code):

http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~am ... eneration/
http://donjon.bin.sh/world/about/
http://www.gamereplays.org/community/in ... 78306&st=0 [this is a supcom random map generator]
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=498630
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/sho ... 4be1ca2268 [newer civ map gen]
=>source: http://www.gamefront.com/files/21519878 ... source_zip
http://vterrain.org/Elevation/Artificial/
http://www.drdobbs.com/parallel/generat ... /184409269

I hope this info will supply someone with some inspiration to make this generator happen.

Statistics: Posted by HyperGrid — 24 Sep 2013, 07:49

Re: random map generator

2013-07-29T13:57:20+02:00

I know that no one would spend so much time for something that i ask.
Thats why i can simply hope someone decides that having a random map generator is something worth spending time into. Until i would have the necessary coding skils for this FA would propably already have died out...

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 29 Jul 2013, 13:57

Re: random map generator

2013-07-29T05:30:06+02:00

Golol wrote:
ive tried learning to code several times and i never did it. i never even got past console applications.
if i could id want to do it but i cant.
btw this is how it could work:
i dont know a lot about mapping but i know that the heightmap is stored inside a picture smoehow...

Learning new skills takes a lot of time and effort. You must understand that what you are asking for would require, even for an experienced programmer, would take a huge ammount of time to implement. It is not a simple task. People wont be motivated to devota all of that time to doing what you ask. Especially when you have not devoted the time to learning about this.

You are quite correct about the heightmap. It is edited using photoshop and exists as a 1 dimensional matrix. It should be possible to generate a heighmap of the proper design using an algorithm. Unfortunately, you underestimate the complexity of that algorithm. Because you need to consider gradients. Certain slopes are buildable terrain, and other slopes are passable, but not buildable. Then others are completely impassable.

Rolling hills will have a different overall look to mountain ridges. Etc. Making an algorithm which will generate realistic landform topography is very complicated.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 29 Jul 2013, 05:30

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T23:29:14+02:00

ive tried learning to code several times and i never did it. i never even got past console applications.
if i could id want to do it but i cant.
btw this is how it could work:
i dont know a lot about mapping but i know that the heightmap is stored inside a picture smoehow.
i just saw how by editing this picture the heightmap was easily adjusted so if a programm just creates a random pattern of grey colors and each pixel must have a color thats similar to an adjacent pixel (no random spikes on the map) then there should be a random map that isnt just a bunch of random spikes.
this would also leave the option for a "height difference tolerance" slider that indicates how similar a color may be to an adjacent pixels color.
but all the additional files have to be generated so its definetly not as easy. and i think to get the picture you need to do some stuff first that i dont know.

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 28 Jul 2013, 23:29

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T20:17:09+02:00

then do it

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 28 Jul 2013, 20:17

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T18:46:21+02:00

well if the map looks bad its not a problem.
and i know about the undiscovered thing. the fact is that it doesnt do anything when everyone knows the map from every piexe of reclaim to the exact position of mexes anyways.
if the map generator simply generates maps that basically only have a single texture and are completly random - thats enough.
if a few people sit down for a while hundrets of maps could be generated and from time to time there will be a worthy one that is can possibly make it into the ranked rotation.
everyone can be a mapper just by pressing "generate random map"until you find a good one.
and if a map is good and played then there will be properly textured ones (look at the different versions of maps like fields of isis)
the community will be flooded with new maps.

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 28 Jul 2013, 18:46

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T17:14:06+02:00

adding the, undiscovered i think it was called from original supcom shouldnt be a that big deal

it is also not a big deal to make a map with some symetric random elevations and reclaim and mexes, the problem is to make them look good

that means you would need some kind of modular system from which the maps are composed otherwise would have hard times creating a nice textured map and that is so much work without garantuee that it looks good in the end

but i mean if somebody thinks he can do that he might try (yes i know nobody will)

Statistics: Posted by ColonelSheppard — 28 Jul 2013, 17:14

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T16:04:07+02:00

Golol wrote:
i really liked the idea that you would spawn on an undiscovered map and you wouldnt even know its size. gameplay would be changed. youd propably start with air fac.
i think now we just have to hope for a really experienced coder with time at his hands

You seem somewhat keen on the idea. Why don't you learn how to code?

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 28 Jul 2013, 16:04

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T09:54:46+02:00

Golol wrote:
i really liked the idea that you would spawn on an undiscovered map and you wouldnt even know its size. gameplay would be changed. youd propably start with air fac.
i think now we just have to hope for a really experienced coder with time at his hands

if i remember correctly, this was possible in vanilla
you spawn on a map and everything your units can't see is blacked out until you discover it, from then on the landscape is known but the fog of war (what we use for all games) still remains

maybe there is a way to add this to FA, not sure tho

Statistics: Posted by Myxir — 28 Jul 2013, 09:54

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T09:05:43+02:00

With random maps you'd have to focus more on thinking about basic positioning, examining chockpoints etc.. as oppose to more advanced plays like on maps both opponents are familiar with.

Statistics: Posted by CopyyyCattt — 28 Jul 2013, 09:05

Re: random map generator

2013-07-28T09:01:45+02:00

i really liked the idea that you would spawn on an undiscovered map and you wouldnt even know its size. gameplay would be changed. youd propably start with air fac.
i think now we just have to hope for a really experienced coder with time at his hands

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 28 Jul 2013, 09:01

Re: random map generator

2013-07-21T07:18:51+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
We will see if the random planets of PA are interesting

They won't be.
I dont know what kind of map generator would be able to carefully place spots in interesting balanced and novel ways.

Statistics: Posted by CopyyyCattt — 21 Jul 2013, 07:18

Re: random map generator

2013-07-19T08:36:20+02:00

Actually, the parameters would be incredibly difficult. Because there is a good deal of creativity and game insight that goes into inventing a map. It is likely that the program would generate very similar and often stupid maps to play on. The texturing and deals would also be problematic. Map makers will generally range test things and design cliffs and terrain exactly so. Because they first have in mind the kinds of tactics which will be used on their maps.

The height map generator would need to reduce the terrain style down to a fractal algorithum, which would be able to reproduce "real" looking terrain (that is the hard part). One sollution would be to create a highly detailed 81x81 map for each titleset. Then generate a 20x20 map by cropping this map down to the requisite size. Or alternatively, you would need a height map library. Texturing and decals would need to be stytlised, with fractal mathematics.

Starting marker locations would need to be generated, and mex/hydro markers using a series of relative distance templates. With the same template being adopted for each player. The map could also generate a fair distribution of expansion mex sites. It is very likely that all the maps generated would need perfect symmetry for exact balance. However, these advantages would be mitigated by both players having no map knowledge... The generator would need to ensure that mex sites are not placed on unbuildable terrain, and that pathing and access are equivalent. Because these random errors would really spoil a match.

In short. Creating a random map generator is about 100 times more difficult then just making the maps in the first place.

***

However, I have often wondered what a tornament might be like if it featured entierly new maps. With the participants having no contact with the map makers, and launching the game without the ability to study the map beforehand.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 19 Jul 2013, 08:36

Re: random map generator

2013-05-28T11:29:09+02:00

This would be great, I doubt it would be too difficult to accomplish for an experienced programmer. Someone do this!

Statistics: Posted by Blakbewwy — 28 May 2013, 11:29