Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-02-01T13:47:00+02:00

Lionhardt wrote:
Jip wrote:That is quite a pessimistic choice of words for someone you do not know.

Why? Placing decals is an absolute hassle.

It absolutely is, perhaps I misinterpreted it. I was solely referring to the choice of words. Either way, thanks for the tips. I'll look into them.

Eidt: To further clarify myself: I thought you were talking about the person (as in, me), not the process (as in, placing decals).

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 01 Feb 2018, 13:47

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-02-01T12:31:19+02:00

Jip wrote:
That is quite a pessimistic choice of words for someone you do not know.

Why? Placing decals is an absolute hassle.

Tips? 1) Find terrain features, complement them with decals and work your way toward the open spaces.
2) Make new structures with decals independent of the heightmap features. Example (the river bed): viewtopic.php?f=53&t=6662&start=290#p122458

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 01 Feb 2018, 12:31

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-02-01T12:13:29+02:00

Lionhardt wrote:
Jip wrote:I am fully aware! I've read and studied Art of Game Design by Jesse Schell. All the points you made are right - and it's nice to hear them from someone else for once. People don't understand that when there's too much randomness (plain, barren map) involved that a game cannot be fun when played on a competitive level - there's just too much guessing. I'd love diving into this conversation with you at one point!

Oh cool, nice to see you also approach this theoretically. I actually have never read any game design theory myself. But I always found it fun theorising about game design and also team coordination theory (in shooters mostly) as a pastime. But I will take a look into that book at some point.

I've got some more books, that are more light weight, yet quite effective too. If you're interested, I can PM them to you.

Lionhardt wrote:
If placing decals is too much hassle for you

That is quite a pessimistic choice of words for someone you do not know. It is not the case. The issue is quite simple: I don't know how to. I don't know how to place decals in open terrain in such a way that it looks appealing. I've tried and I've failed. Numerous times. Hence, I published without them.

If you have any tips or tricks on how to decorate open spaces, I'd love to hear them!

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 01 Feb 2018, 12:13

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-02-01T12:08:56+02:00

Franck83 wrote:
Do you have any interesting ideas for the next map? Anything that I can play around with? Love to hear about it.

I'm not enough skilled to give advices on the map side, but i'm thinking about making a capture the flag mod in 2018 after my mod release. I would like to see not necessary an exclusive CTF map but a compatible one (with some good dedicated point of interest areas).

And why not adding some original props (viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15650) ?

I was not asking for professional advice, I was asking what you would like to see!

but i'm thinking about making a capture the flag mod in 2018 after my mod release
Could you tell me more about this in private? I'd love to hear what your ideas are and how you intend to balance the game. I can make a map to accompany your mod.

And why not adding some original props (viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15650)
I was already thinking about that! Not for these two maps, however. But for one I am making right now, which is yet to see the light of the world. I'm also testing how custom props and maps are to be combined.

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 01 Feb 2018, 12:08

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-02-01T03:03:39+02:00

Forgot to give feedback based on the new and bigger pictures: For the desert map I would say you could use quite a bit more normal decals. I only can spot a few around the water and on the dunes and a couple of albedo decals. If placing decals is too much hassle for you, ad least place some :macro decals". Meaning resize some generic normal decals so it spans a good portion of the map. Set the LOD cutoff very high And cover the map with a few of these. If necessary make them disappear when zooming further in. That will break up the plain ground texture.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 01 Feb 2018, 03:03

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-02-01T00:00:46+02:00

Jip wrote:
That is, because it is. As the description says, it's just a visual wise better version of the Astro Crater Battle. Hence, it doesn't have much depth to it. I just added it to be complete in the post - it is still a map that I made of which I am reasonably proud! The primary reason I made it is because I can't stand that the Astro Crater Battle map is played so often, yet, is visually extremely unpleasant.

Oh, I see. Well in that you did a good job prettying it up.

Jip wrote:
I am fully aware! I've read and studied Art of Game Design by Jesse Schell. All the points you made are right - and it's nice to hear them from someone else for once. People don't understand that when there's too much randomness (plain, barren map) involved that a game cannot be fun when played on a competitive level - there's just too much guessing. I'd love diving into this conversation with you at one point!

Oh cool, nice to see you also approach this theoretically. I actually have never read any game design theory myself. But I always found it fun theorising about game design and also team coordination theory (in shooters mostly) as a pastime. But I will take a look into that book at some point.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 01 Feb 2018, 00:00

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-01-31T23:22:05+02:00

There should be clouds in the middle! the weather definition and generator are there. They do spawn on the regular FA, but they do not appear to be spawning on FaF.

I'm not surprised you already thought about some clouds !

Do you have any interesting ideas for the next map? Anything that I can play around with? Love to hear about it.

I'm not enough skilled to give advices on the map side, but i'm thinking about making a capture the flag mod in 2018 after my mod release. I would like to see not necessary an exclusive CTF map but a compatible one (with some good dedicated point of interest areas).

And why not adding some original props (viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15650) ?

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Jan 2018, 23:22

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-01-31T23:09:24+02:00

@Franck83,

I'm not a tactical master of map balance, but i really love the oasis feeling of Perfidious Barrenlands
Thank you! in all honesty, I build the middle this way because I wanted to. It's not perfectly balanced, but that was really hard to get right. In its current state, it's reasonably balanced.

Maybe adding some cloud or fog in the middle to create some vibes.
There should be clouds in the middle! the weather definition and generator are there. They do spawn on the regular FA, but they do not appear to be spawning on FaF.

Keep on the quality work.
Thanks for the positive feedback! Do you have any interesting ideas for the next map? Anything that I can play around with? Love to hear about it.

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 31 Jan 2018, 23:09

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-01-31T22:39:17+02:00

Hi Jip,

I'm not a tactical master of map balance, but i really love the oasis feeling of Perfidious Barrenlands. The heightmap is nice, coherent and a good sense of proportion. Don't know why but it reminds me some total war rome 2 desert battle maps.

Maybe adding some cloud or fog in the middle to create some vibes.

Keep on the quality work.

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Jan 2018, 22:39

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-01-31T21:34:51+02:00

@ Lionhardt,

Please provide bigger pictures. Can't make out anything in the desert one.
I will, tomorrow! EDIT: Done ^^! See inside the spoilers!

But the layout of Battle of the Craters looks very... uninspired.
That is, because it is. As the description says, it's just a visual wise better version of the Astro Crater Battle. Hence, it doesn't have much depth to it. I just added it to be complete in the post - it is still a map that I made of which I am reasonably proud! The primary reason I made it is because I can't stand that the Astro Crater Battle map is played so often, yet, is visually extremely unpleasant.

Consider this: WIth a good map layout it is like with entropy, the most complex/ interesting gameplay arises on maps that are not too plain and not too complex. I approximate map complexity in the number of lanes on a map. Why is a plain barren flat map bad? Because it has zero lanes and very few choices for players to make. Why would a maze be a bad map? Because there are too many lanes and too many choices that result in random guessing for players to make. Your water/ island has basically one or two lanes, maybe three when you push it.

I am fully aware! I've read and studied Art of Game Design by Jesse Schell. All the points you made are right - and it's nice to hear them from someone else for once. People don't understand that when there's too much randomness (plain, barren map) involved that a game cannot be fun when played on a competitive level - there's just too much guessing. I'd love diving into this conversation with you at one point!

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 31 Jan 2018, 21:34

Re: Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-01-30T19:23:24+02:00

Please provide bigger pictures. Can't make out anything in the desert one. Texturing looks quite good though. But the layout of Battle of the Craters looks very... uninspired. What kind of interesting gameplay did you intend to allow for with that layout? Consider this: WIth a good map layout it is like with entropy, the most complex/ interesting gameplay arises on maps that are not too plain and not too complex. I approximate map complexity in the number of lanes on a map. Why is a plain barren flat map bad? Because it has zero lanes and very few choices for players to make. Why would a maze be a bad map? Because there are too many lanes and too many choices that result in random guessing for players to make. Your water/ island has basically one or two lanes, maybe three when you push it.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 30 Jan 2018, 19:23

Jip's WIP Mapping Thread

2018-01-31T21:57:15+02:00

Hello everyone!

I've been in the mapping scene in the background for a while now, and I thought I'd come out for it. Hence this thread! All feedback is welcome, preferable with a clear example and a clear solution. With or without the latter, I can atleast ponder about your feedback!

A minor question about this topic - the map icons (previews) now appear double because they are also part of the attachments of this post. Can this be fixed, somehow?
Or should I host them somewhere else?

Perfidious Barrenlands (3vs3)
Once a gorgeous land, which got turned into torned wastelands. A war long forgotton, while entities still wander the lands. These treacherous lands have been found again - and is a favorite location among commanders for a stand off.

Spoiler: show

Battle of the Craters (3vs3)
A battle simulation that has been used throughout the ages. Will you be able to work together towards victory? Map completely revamped by Jip. Originial map by BRS_Astro.

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by Jip — 30 Jan 2018, 15:57