Forged Alliance Forever

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-11-29T05:32:22+02:00

What if we give a prebuilt T2 base to each player with a lot of land/air/naval factories so they can spam the sh*t out and have large-scale land/naval battles soon?

We could also implement team matchmaker to shake things up - after all, 20x20 maps are mostly for large-scale team games, thus teams should fare well.

Also, we could use 81x81 maps to design custom campaigns, which reenact historical battles of the 20th century or make up some battles that would've happened in the Infinite War. If we do that, might as well implement Galactic War because the option above sound a lot like it.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 29 Nov 2016, 05:32

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-11-28T23:50:31+02:00

Maybe starting the ACUs relatively close together, in the middle, could generate enough stuff happening and entertainment. The thing is that the maps is big enough for them to expand into late game stuff, if so they want.

Starting together, they'd have to defend their ground or their opponent would get all the eco early game and win.

Statistics: Posted by Sllypper — 28 Nov 2016, 23:50

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-07T12:12:51+02:00

biass wrote:
if you're still here thinking an 81km map is a fun time

try moving a unit long distance without having them move in one of the 8 cardinal directions

hf)

I do this all the time with navy on Seton's Clutch. Shift + click, click, click, click. All waypoints on straight line from A to B. Forces units to break from their retarded cardinal pathfinding and actually take the shortest route.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 07 Aug 2016, 12:12

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-06T19:08:35+02:00

You even get units doing that on 10 km maps :/

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 06 Aug 2016, 19:08

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-06T17:53:25+02:00

if you're still here thinking an 81km map is a fun time

try moving a unit long distance without having them move in one of the 8 cardinal directions

hf)

Statistics: Posted by biass — 06 Aug 2016, 17:53

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-06T10:10:29+02:00

Anihilnine wrote:
I think u need to solve the problem that eco and tech is more useful than controlling the map. I'm dubious your going to fix that without changing the rules

This is caused by current map design, that common 4 core mexes plus many easily defended mexes make map control useless (in teamgames). It can be avoided by giving 1-2 core mexes and some reclaim in starting position and spread the majority of mexes around map.

Back to the topic, there is one space themed map, (cant name it now as im using phone) it has planets and space between them which is unable to be entried by units. Maybe that kind of idea could be used for making yor map hawkei.

Edit: map is Asteroids FA ( SCMP_haz11FA.v0001 ) It has custom textures (.dds) files to get space-looking background on map and a script which removes all units from water layer every 2 second.

Statistics: Posted by seero — 06 Aug 2016, 10:10

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-06T09:58:06+02:00

I think u need to solve the problem that eco and tech is more useful than controlling the map. I'm dubious your going to fix that without changing the rules

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 06 Aug 2016, 09:58

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-06T09:19:09+02:00

Anihilnine,
That would be an interesting idea for a mod. Though, the emphasis would still be on making a map which is playable with the default settings. For a moment, I thought you were suggesting to put aggressive civilian bases on the expansions to limit growth rates.

Within the gameplay of SC:FA the idea of generating spam is only a minor imposition on the APM of a player. As it is entirely possible for units to be manufactured, transported, sent on attack mission, kill enemies, and be destroyed, all without any player involvement whatsoever. Achieved through continuous build loops, factory waypoints, and transport ferry systems. So having this controlled by an AI wouldn't be helpful... Infact, filling an 81 km map, with 30 km's between the bases, with spam would create a huge amount of clutter and most computers would grind to a halt at -5 simspeed.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 06 Aug 2016, 09:19

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-06T08:19:28+02:00

Another way to make an 81km map viable is to DOTAfy it.

There are civilian-controlled bases everywhere. You forge alliances with them by overrunning them with units or just paying them with mass. Then that base starts spamming out a type of unit (some bases make land, some make navy some make air) and the civilians send their units forward towards your opponent ... running into more civilians in the way. In the center would be t3 air, t3 land etc so you wouldn't get those units until later.

Which leaves the question, can you build your own units at all? Maybe you can, but there is a low unit cap. Or maybe there is no restriction in which case t3air and massfabs are a problem. If you can't build ANY units then your ACU is very important and also the technology upgrades are drip-fed out. Maybe SACUs are all you can build and their upgrade choices become very interesting.

So the idea has the potential to make an 81km map more managable by palming unit management off to AI, and limiting technology upgrades.

An interesting idea and would it be fun to play? Probably not

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 06 Aug 2016, 08:19

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-05T23:57:31+02:00

Yeah, my moon with craters suggestion works with embracing the idea of a patchwork looking map like you suggest.
Creating a reason for each part to be seperate from the surrounding area.

I was just thinking about his ideas and what would be a good way to put them in practice. Having 7 small maps, would give him milestones and his effort wouldn't completely go to waste if he stopped halfway.

Statistics: Posted by KeyBlue — 05 Aug 2016, 23:57

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-05T23:29:14+02:00

Well I think it is a little silly because of what I said. Also, the single maps would need to be symmetrical. Therefore you would have symmetrical regions in an asymmetrical map, unless regions would be symmetric across the whole map to each other. That would look not convincing at all I think. It is possible but... I think it is silly. If somebody can pull that off with good end-product, that would be quite the feat though. Maybe this could be made a group project. A few people that each make one of the regions. It would have a massive coordination overhead though because so many parameters would have to be synced up. Apart from the issue that every body has his own design-language which would make the final product look even less coherent.
Also: individual maps have different layouts than regions in larger maps. The result would be a patchwork looking larger map. You could however embrace this fact and design the entire map to revolve around this.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 05 Aug 2016, 23:29

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-05T22:02:12+02:00

I largely meant he could reuse all strata masks and heightmaps.
All decals become easy, since its pure copy paste (tedious and mindless, but easy work, he can even only use a fraction of the original ones).
Same with props.

And if you already have code that will speed up that process of decal and props (or what code do you mean, quite obscure explanation).
That becomes even less work, no?

I mean, if he already has the height maps and strata for his important locations. That will surely speed up his process of making the 80km map.

Not sure what is so silly about that. He'll contribute with 7 playable maps, while still having his 80km map that will be barely played.

Statistics: Posted by KeyBlue — 05 Aug 2016, 22:02

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-05T21:48:27+02:00

err... that idea of making 7 smaller maps and combining them into 1 large one is... kinda silly. You need a script that moves all decals and props in the right place for example (like the one I wrote a while back). Apart from that nobody makes large maps as detailed as small ones.

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 05 Aug 2016, 21:48

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-05T21:37:06+02:00

I am assuming you have little mapping experience?

Since you think about making 7 5km areas inside a 81km map, maybe its a good idea to first make a 5km map.
This way you know how much work it is for 5km and you can multiply the amount of work times 7 + the time necessary to fill in the remaining space.

Or maybe even better: make 7 5km maps (or with similar size of playing field) using the same theme (as if they were on the same planet) and then combine them into your final 81km map. Then you'll have created 8 maps instead of 1. More contribution with similar effort.

And if you're going for 7 5km parts, take this into account. These 7 areas will cover 175km² inside your 6400+km² map.
Wouldn't a 40km map with 1600km² be more than enough?

Nice theme could be a moon landscape with each area inside a crater. You can then fill the rest of the map with mountains, craters filled with water, craters with reclaim(thats maybe to apm intensive) , craters with indestructable enemy civilians to create no fly zones, etc.

Statistics: Posted by KeyBlue — 05 Aug 2016, 21:37

Re: How to make a good 81 km map for 1v1.

2016-08-05T20:23:38+02:00

I would also say that creating 80km map is waste of time (and its loooots of time). Simply just because there is no CPU made which could handle 80km maps full of units and wrecks. Even 20km is kinda big for 1v1, but going for 40km map with that kind of subareas as lionhardt described would be worth of trying. Id like to do a quick draft map to test that kind of gameplay but as my cpu cant even handle 20km maps lategame, ill stay out of big maps.

Statistics: Posted by seero — 05 Aug 2016, 20:23