Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-25T01:19:24+02:00

More than probably an UI mod conflicting.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 25 Mar 2013, 01:19

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-25T00:25:26+02:00

Hi

Take a look to this looping text in log while in debug on replay in ranked game

DEBUG: Loading module '\000/lua/ui/game/avatars.lua\000'
WARNING: Error running '/lua/ui/game/gamemain.lua:OnBeat': ...d alliance\gamedata\mohodata.scd\lua\maui\bitmap.lua(35): Expected a game object. (Did you call with '.' instead of ':'?)
stack traceback:
[C]: in function `InternalCreateBitmap'
...d alliance\gamedata\mohodata.scd\lua\maui\bitmap.lua(35): in function `initfn'
...aforever\gamedata\faforever.faf\lua\system\class.lua(258): in function <...aforever\gamedata\faforever.faf\lua\system\class.lua:246>
...ed alliance\gamedata\lua.scd\lua\ui\game\avatars.lua(124): in function `CreateAvatar'
...ed alliance\gamedata\lua.scd\lua\ui\game\avatars.lua(671): in function `v'
...ever\gamedata\faforever.faf\lua\ui\game\gamemain.lua(460): in function <...ever\gamedata\faforever.faf\lua\ui\game\gamemain.lua:458>

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 25 Mar 2013, 00:25

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T19:44:46+02:00

I don't know, I still find it crap that you can put so much into a t4 bomber and only get one pass over a base before it dies.

Statistics: Posted by Supreme321 — 24 Mar 2013, 19:44

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T19:40:32+02:00

Supreme321 wrote:
But since sams will be more effective now wont they be built more as an alternative to asf, so wont they still be shredded more easily as a result.

More easily than currently by ASFs? No.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 24 Mar 2013, 19:40

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T19:17:07+02:00

But since sams will be more effective now wont they be built more as an alternative to asf, so wont they still be shredded more easily as a result.

Statistics: Posted by Supreme321 — 24 Mar 2013, 19:17

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T19:10:32+02:00

Supreme321 wrote:
pip wrote:
Sunny wrote:Nerf to ASF is also an indirect buff to their t4 bomber.

Kind of interesting that you brought this up because even a small group of asf will shred this experimental in seconds, how about the SAM, will the t4 bomber also be shredded in only a few seconds as well because of the AOE buffs?

AOE only affects several units, so unless you overlap two or 3 t4 bombers, no nothing is changed.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 24 Mar 2013, 19:10

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T19:01:01+02:00

pip wrote:
Sunny wrote:Nerf to ASF is also an indirect buff to their t4 bomber.

Kind of interesting that you brought this up because even a small group of asf will shred this experimental in seconds, how about the SAM, will the t4 bomber also be shredded in only a few seconds as well because of the AOE buffs?

Statistics: Posted by Supreme321 — 24 Mar 2013, 19:01

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T18:48:46+02:00

Ok since it's final release candidate for the patch, i checked it, especially the last added changes. There is a small mistake, either because of me or because of the order in which changes to SAM were applied :in any case, SAMs end up not having targetting priority for experimentals (except Aeon, for some reason).

I'm posting the proper SAM bp again, along with a modified tooltip file from which i removed the line saying that the Seraphim ACU 2nd restoration field level adds health to nearby units.
I also changed description of Hoplite from heavily armored unit to : "Lightly armored rocket bot. Designed to engage and destroy heavier armored units from a distance".

Finally, in order to make the Chrono Dampener be useful against t2 and t3 units, and with a range upgraded ACU, I believe it should have 35 range (same as range upgrade). I'm adding the bp too, just in case, even if Brainwashed didn't add this. I believe 22 range is useless at late t2 and early t3, where it can be a useful upgrade for its current price. I suspect without a range increase, the upgrade will still never be used despite being cheaper.
Up to Zep to add it or not.

And final words : in many aspects, from improved scorebaord, lobby options, support for 3596, better balance, more options in late game, bugfixes, etc, it will be a super complete patch. It's a huge improvement for the game.
Hopefully it will be approved by the majority and I hope nothing wrong will come up from the ASF / SAMs adjustments : just be sure to be smart and spread your bombers and gunships if you use some in a base defended by SAMs. SAMs were not changed much against spread out planes, just improved against blobs.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 24 Mar 2013, 18:48

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T17:02:41+02:00

Balance mod updated with 3622 Release candidate 2 :

- Code base compatible with retail version (3596 I think).
- Fixed a glitch with scores in game.
- Turn rate of Cybran frigate and aircraft carriers projectiles increased to 25 (from 12).
- Increased veterancy level for SAMs
- Experimental have other experimental and SCUs on top priorities.
- Scathis amphibious / speed 1.5 (from 1) / BuildCostMass : 85000 (from 63000 in 3621 or 93000 in previous tests)

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 24 Mar 2013, 17:02

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T11:49:09+02:00

Sunny wrote:
I also didn't quite get how restorers and Aeon T2 ASFs got nerfed. We all know, how gamebreaking missing this will hurt the game.

Swiftwinds and Restorers have not been touched. If anything, they are indirectly buffed by nerfed ASF, but ASF are still better at air to air combat, mass for mass, quite siginificantlu, so the buff is not that big. Nerf to ASF is also an indirect buff to the Czar.

As for strength of faction, Aeon is moderately buffed in 3622, but in important areas (t1 bombers and auroras). I don't know about the improvement of the chrono dampener upgrade. It may end up being a super handy tool, who knows? I suspect it can be an excellent counter to t3 units like percies and Bricks (for the price of a brick, you can use the upgrade to counter a lot of Bricks because stunning them give you time to OC and to your harbinger to close up the distance of their limited range)

However Cybran will recieve a lot of small buffs here and there for t1 and t2 (slightly better ACU regen, improved mantis accuracy, functional firebeetles, slightly more resistant hoplites, better AA capabilities for frigates, Destroyer and Carrier), and some nerf to t4 (Soul Ripper and Scathis). So I believe top players will also play them in 1v1, they should be more competitive than before (hopefully not too much).

UEF recieved small buffs (worthy Billy, Titan small buff and Fatboy targetting priority, which will be able to kite other experimental much more efficiently). It's sad that players still don't use Sparkies, which were buffed last time and are super useful units.

Seraphim buffs are few. The T2 bomber will drop more reliably, and Sera will end up with the best SAM of all (their super fast projectile was there before, but with AOE buff, it'll be really strong against blob of t3 bombers, because the projectile can reach them sooner, and sometimes before they can drop). Nerf to ASF is also an indirect buff to their t4 bomber.

All in all, I think all factions will be overally more balanced, with still the usual advantages on some maps.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 24 Mar 2013, 11:49

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T11:28:05+02:00

The things, guys did to SAMs are good things. I would suggest rather to go with range(encourages to build T2 AAs, solves 10-20 T3 bombers (20k-40k mass) gameender problem too(lol, this looks like LISP)), not splash, but splash will do vs ASFs too.
Now a player can at least restrict free flying over bases (2-3 ASFs is nothing at late stages). 10 T3 SAMs is a huge amount, as they are not going to go somewhere and kill something for you. But now it just brings more diversity to endgame at least in turtle duels.
The gameplay will still revolve around T3 air on land maps (note the word "land", I know some will not). This is because we still don't have a reliable land movinig AA at T3 stage.

I also didn't quite get how restorers and Aeon T2 ASFs got nerfed. We all know, how gamebreaking missing this will hurt the game.
Also I noted, that some of the very best players, icluding Voodoo, already had switched to Aeon, it looks like a stake for me.

Statistics: Posted by Sunny — 24 Mar 2013, 11:28

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T08:37:25+02:00

jabwd wrote:
I have been running some 'tests' ( Cheating on, 150 ASFs, fly by's with 10 SAM turrets and several different types of 'clouds' of ASFs ) and find the new SAM turrets to be overpowered.

In the current state you will take out about 3-4 fighters in 1 fly by, while with the new balance testing mod 50 will die ( or more, depending on the group density ). This makes the sam turrets a ridiculous tool for turteling. I however do agree that currently SAM turrets are not strong enough to punish flying over someone's protected base. Wouldn't another idea by some kind of constant fire mode from SAM turrets which would allow them to kill ASFs in a fast manner but not punish too much with splash.

So you think spamming 150 units of the same kind is smarter than turtling? ASF = air supremacy, it should not be air impunity, especially over your opponent's base. When did you see a land army with 150 t3 Bots? And did you see what happen when you build 150 t2 gunships and fly them over 10 flaks? IF ASF are spread out, and less numerous, casualties are much more reasonable and close to what they were before.

The new change is specifically done to prevent players to spam ASF too much : you just checked it works as intended. SAMs are better against swarms now, but they are weaker than before against single targets, because they are more vulnerable to land attacks, naval attacks and gunship attacks and also air experimental attacks (they still do same DPS against air experimentals, but have much less hp). Yes, you need to think about air strategies now, it's not just : SPAM more ASF and t3 bombers = I win combo. Drops of units before the SAM range, t3 gunships, air experimentals are more viable now.

@Icken. ASF wrecks value is now around 142 mass (instead of 360). So it's a lot better than before, it's not that risky to lose 20 ASF over the enemy base (you have to be smart and not give him 150 ASF wrecks). As for Aeon navy, you should have suggested something one month ago, and tested it in the last 3 weeks.

@Wakke : if you believe that t1 units, t2 units or t3 units are a bigger threat to experimental units than other experimental units in firing range, it means you don't reach much the t4 stage of the game. When you retreat your fatboy because a Monkeylord is coming, and the Fatboy shoots engineers reclaiming wrecks instead, or mantis, rather than the Monkeylord, it's a pity.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 24 Mar 2013, 08:37

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T04:13:27+02:00

I have been running some 'tests' ( Cheating on, 150 ASFs, fly by's with 10 SAM turrets and several different types of 'clouds' of ASFs ) and find the new SAM turrets to be overpowered.

In the current state you will take out about 3-4 fighters in 1 fly by, while with the new balance testing mod 50 will die ( or more, depending on the group density ). This makes the sam turrets a ridiculous tool for turteling. I however do agree that currently SAM turrets are not strong enough to punish flying over someone's protected base. Wouldn't another idea by some kind of constant fire mode from SAM turrets which would allow them to kill ASFs in a fast manner but not punish too much with splash.

Statistics: Posted by jabwd — 24 Mar 2013, 04:13

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T02:01:46+02:00

I would need logs. You are supposed to get scores.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 24 Mar 2013, 02:01

Re: Balance Test Mod.

2013-03-24T01:50:54+02:00

i have tested t3 air. it felt better as it is now. its still not realy viable in 1v1 games compared to land spam

sams are good now. restorers maybe need a new fix, but they fit their role as a anti air ship now. compared to other t3 gunships they suck vs land and they are countered by flaks. it just needs more testing.

i still belive that air leaves too much wreck mass.

also the t3 arty is better now. its something to think building it

i havent tested the new ac aa but cybran have no chance against air on navy. it will at least improve the current situation but i prefer the idea of lappen. giving the ac´s roles that fit their factions....

i like the new colors but it could get a problem for some players who cant see the difference between some colors even at the old ones. some others are just ugly like that diry yellow or white

one thing i have noticed was that it did not show scores in the balance testing mod. please do not implement that into the normal game, some players want scores. it also did not display the amout of my current units. it always showed 0/1000

another thing for the next balance patch is aeon navy. i find it quite interesting that ppl talk so barley about it. yes, i know they have plenty of hovering units... but in my eyes its the biggest balance issue in supcom atm. e.g the aeon destoryers have no chance at all against microed navy. their t1 aa ships dont feel strong enough. cybran cruisers are good at shooting, uef and sera have tml but the aeon cruiser has nothing. its cannon is just shit. the battleship has a low range because of tempest but tempest is not good at all against battleships or subs due its price. the only aeon navy unit that is better than something from the other factions is the rocketship.

Statistics: Posted by ICKEN — 24 Mar 2013, 01:50