Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-11-17T22:37:23+02:00

Is this project still under development?
I want progress report!

Statistics: Posted by Kalvirox — 17 Nov 2014, 22:37

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-08-07T17:26:45+02:00

Another way to achieve this might be to have an 81x81 height map. Then a unique map can be created every time, by cropping a region of this map of the desired size. That size being dependant on the number of players involved.

- 1v1 games are played on a 5x5 cropped map
- 2v2 games are played on a 10x10 cropped map
- 3v3 and 4v4 games should be played on 20x20 maps
- 5v5 should be played on 40x40 maps.

Once the map has been cropped to the desired size. A simple coordinate algorithm could be used to generate a balanced distribution of mass/hydro markers. Based on the location of buildable areas, and underwater regions.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 07 Aug 2014, 17:26

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-07-14T13:00:50+02:00

Duck 42 your latest Maps have a problem. It is a result of the problem i already told you, you have some landscape which is slightly under water but not very deep. Also the opposite exists it is land but not high enough over water level. So far it lead only to visual effects, but for example on your map Optera III the connections to the middle island can neither be crossed with land units nor with ships. The only unit which can enter this area at all are hover units. This is definately imba.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 14 Jul 2014, 13:00

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-22T15:01:01+02:00

...some trees are in the air, when they are on slopes

That is the case on some official maps too (Setons i.e.)

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 22 Jun 2014, 15:01

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-22T03:59:13+02:00

shader on cliff is pink

As I was looking through the FA terrain pixel shaders (for a totally different reason), I came across the specular color value. I loaded up the value for Itania, and it was that exact shade of pink. So, I'm pretty sure that's the problem. I've been choosing a totally random color value for it which as you noticed, can lead to some weird lighting. I'll see if I can figure out a good value to use for that setting.

Statistics: Posted by Duck_42 — 22 Jun 2014, 03:59

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-17T01:56:15+02:00

...some trees are in the air, when they are on slopes

Yes, I know. I noticed this when I was writing the prop placement code. The problem is the tree groups. They're fairly large, so they stick out in the air if they're on a slope. I could rotate the prop based on the normal vector of the terrain, but then you'd have trees growing out at an angle (which would look weird too). The best solution will probably be to avoid placing tree groups on slopes.

shader on cliff is pink

I've noticed some weird shader colors too. I'll have to research that. AFAIK, It doesn't show up in the map editor.

Statistics: Posted by Duck_42 — 17 Jun 2014, 01:56

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-16T13:51:51+02:00

I checked some maps from this collection:
Erusc VIII
Zeludon II
Verde Prime
Athon II
Itania VII
Stafar Gamma Minor

They all look very nice and good playable, no matter if teamgame or 1v1. They are not 100% balanced like the 1v1 map Staffa Gamma Minor because the mass spots are spread equal in ammount to player but not in position. But for GW absolutely no Problem! Everybody got the same number of mass spots one on the backside the other one in front. The distance is the same from the own base. I guess i will try (to prove that they are good playable) to play some teamgames on such Maps 1600+ when i have time. i think people who like team games on maps like pyramid and wonder also would enjoy a game on such maps.

Would be nice to get a setting like loki. A lot of different heights with connections. So far the Maps look mostly very flat and with big Mountains in between. Not much different height levels to enjoy. Also the start point mass spots could differ a bit. Maybe you could do several different settings for this. The reclaim arround the spawn points is a nice idea and looks good.

p.s. in some maps there are 9 spawn points, please make even and not to often odd number of spawn places because thats difficult to make a normal teamgame on such a map. Zeludon II looks for example very nice for a 3v3 teamgame

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 16 Jun 2014, 13:51

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-15T09:19:40+02:00

I've checked some of the maps, and aside some small issues, they seem indeed decent enough for GW.

Here is an issue I got with one of the map though, Itania VII : shader on cliff is pink, looks a bit weird.

Also, there a lot of maps with green theme in GW already, so maybe you can generate more red theme and gray theme maps.

EDIt: other issue I spotted : on Ledan IX, some trees are in the air, when they are on slopes. Maybe it can be fixed in your code.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 15 Jun 2014, 09:19

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-08T05:45:54+02:00

In two weeks I will have some free time for the first time in a few months, and then I'm in.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 08 Jun 2014, 05:45

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-08T02:21:53+02:00

I wonder if you could generate many maps that are all very similar to each other. This way you could create a planetary look and feel and each time you jump in, it's a slightly different map. Eg: Sometimes there is a river, but there are always big shiny green mountains, and there are lots of purple lakes. There are no trees.

With some tweaking, yes this is achievable. However, someone would have to create planet templates for every planet. A planet template would need to include the height map template, a list of stratum, the lighting parameters, the water parameters, and the list of possible props.

I'm already doing that for the stratum and props, and it wouldn't be a big change to add water and lighting.

The real challenge would be in designing the height map templates. Ideally, there would be one for each planet, and it would be meaningfully distinct from the other height map templates. Obviously, we could re-use some and just change the other variables, but that's still a lot of new height map templates that need to be created.

In order to do this "on the fly" though, the map generator will need to generate a playable and "mostly" balanced map every time. I don't have it at that point yet (not saying it isn't doable, just that it's not there yet).

I do appreciate the suggestions. Unfortunately, it'll take a while to get these types of improvements in the map generator if I'm the only one working on it.

Statistics: Posted by Duck_42 — 08 Jun 2014, 02:21

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-07T17:59:29+02:00

I wonder if you could generate many maps that are all very similar to each other. This way you could create a planetry look and feel and each time you jump in, it's a slightly different map. Eg: Sometimes there is a river, but there are always big shiny green mountains, and there are lots of purple lakes. There are no trees.

Since GW has so many new unknown maps, I wonder if my strategic preview could be used in GW to show users what they are getting into before they jump in. Or interestingly, they could buy the intel using a credit. Eg: Strategic preview of the computer generated map Ledan XI:

Shows cliffs, water, reclaim. More info: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7573

With these two ideas we could generate a new map on the fly just before jumping in, and hit the ground running when we get there.

p.s. Ledan has a water bug, some of the hexagons on the right hand side ... the water flickers on and off as you zoom in and out.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 07 Jun 2014, 17:59

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-07T01:32:25+02:00

It would be nice if reclaim was more natural.

I agree. Hopefully, I'll be able to get to that soon.

So... we need some pathfinding

I agree. When do you think you'll be able to code that for us partytime?

I should point out here that I'm not really aiming for total symmetry/equality with these maps. Minor differences in starting points help to make the game more varied. Minor imbalances will only affect the outcome of a small percentage of games. Skilled players will evaluate their position on the map and adapt accordingly.

That being said, the map generator is capable of producing perfectly symmetric maps as well. I just haven't bothered to make any totally symmetric map templates. Any volunteers?

Statistics: Posted by Duck_42 — 07 Jun 2014, 01:32

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-06T12:20:47+02:00

Szakalot wrote:
Don't bother with reclaim! This game is fine already with the reclaim in a circle; or some predetermined location. Random rocks around the map will make people whine even more (it was so much easier for the opponent to get his 'distant reclaim' than us), unless its one big piece in the centre of the map

It would be nice if reclaim was more natural. It's the same on every map ... a bit dull!

However you are right that it can be closer for some than others ... even if it was the same distance from the player starting location, if there is a cliff in the way, that makes a big difference. As you can see, the map Ledan is not equal.

So... we need some pathfinding please Duck

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 06 Jun 2014, 12:20

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-06T08:40:23+02:00

Don't bother with reclaim! This game is fine already with the reclaim in a circle; or some predetermined location. Random rocks around the map will make people whine even more (it was so much easier for the opponent to get his 'distant reclaim' than us), unless its one big piece in the centre of the map

Statistics: Posted by Szakalot — 06 Jun 2014, 08:40

Re: Randomly Generated Maps for GW

2014-06-06T02:11:33+02:00

@partytime,

I haven't seen much diversity in terms of mexes and reclaim

Right now, there are three "types" of mass spots that are placed on a randomly generated map:

Starting point mass spots
Each player will always get 4 of these mass spots.

Starting area mass spots
Each player will get a random number of these near their base. The amount varies from 0 to 5, but it will be the same number for all players (if player A gets 5 of these, than all other players get 5 around their start point too). These mass spots will be positioned randomly around the starting points. However, they are positioned so that all player's have an equal distance to travel.

Randomly placed mass spots
The amount varies from 0 to 7 multiplied by the number of players on the map. These mass spots are distributed randomly at first. Then, an algorithm re-positions them in an attempt to achieve a balance between the players. Unfortunately, my algorithm for this still needs some work. As a consequence, these mass spots are not always placed fairly.

Reclaim is much simpler. Each player gets between 1k and 5k of mass reclaim (usually in a boring circle) around their start point. At some point, I may use the mass spot placement algorithm to distribute reclaim as well (preferably after it's been improved).

@Zep,

Do you have a list of names for the GW planets? If so, I can rename the maps accordingly. Also, I need to know how best to get this pack of 150 maps to you (or whomever will be incorporating them into GW).

Statistics: Posted by Duck_42 — 06 Jun 2014, 02:11