Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Auto Recall

2015-04-02T16:13:52+02:00

I really like that suggestion Hawkei, it doesn't make people play less, and it allows the possibility to try and kill a high ranked enemy, at the cost of your own safety (depending on how the jammer works).

Statistics: Posted by quark036 — 02 Apr 2015, 16:13

Re: Auto Recall

2015-02-10T08:56:51+02:00

Well I think I am coming around to RougeLeader89's idea. Having a 4th ACU slot for GW could make for a more interesting meta-game. As long as those other options are of comparable worth to Auto-Recall. It would also be neat if the ACU were given corresponding model variations (upgrade bones) and the strategic icons were different for each ACU variant.

Some ideas I have for upgrades are as follows:
- Auto Recall
- Auto Recall Jammer
- Advanced Micro Generator (increases initial ACU resource generation and storage. Allowing for more complex openings, increased economic development and OC without storage).
- Advanced Armour Plating (Provides additional HP).
- AA ACU (Provides ACU mounted, T3 capable, AA system).
- Personal Beacon Subsystem (ACU acts as beacon).

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 10 Feb 2015, 08:56

Re: Auto Recall

2015-02-09T14:06:23+02:00

Voodoo wrote:
Hi, i want to talk about the auto recall feature. I also thought at the start "hey what a cool feature" but after some games ...
The problem is that people don't care anymore about their acu as they can't lose their avatar. Same for me, i'm just running with my acu into the
enemys base as i won't lose my avatar anyway. To say it's missing something now in my eyes, the fear to lose his avatar. It was way more interresting to play
GW when it was a fight about "life and dead".

Only my thoughts. What do you think?

yes of course the recall feature should be a well timed thing like teleportation, so that you have something to be on the edge of your seat about.

Statistics: Posted by tatsu — 09 Feb 2015, 14:06

Re: Auto Recall

2014-11-22T10:39:03+02:00

Why create a counter for something you can simply do without. Just leave auto-recalling out of the game. Its lame. Lower ranked players do not need a crutch.

Statistics: Posted by Teralitha — 22 Nov 2014, 10:39

Re: Auto Recall

2014-11-19T02:07:58+02:00

I don't have much to add to this conversation besides agreeing with Rogue, the idea of having an Auto-Recall blocker is a good one. While still keeping auto-recall in, it also brings back that old GW playstyle of protecting your avatar. Also the idea of an item slot is really good, because players wouldn't be able to use both Auto-Recall and Auto-Recall blocker at the same time making it balanced somewhat.

Statistics: Posted by WinterShade — 19 Nov 2014, 02:07

Re: Auto Recall

2014-11-18T12:56:30+02:00

The only reason I don't advocate getting rid of autorecall completely is that it can be a benefit to lower ranked players, part of why I would want something like a signal jammer that blocks autorecall to cost more than autorecall itself is so that people new to galactic war can have a bit of a safety net, they can get up to rank 2 or 3, have the opportunity to play with reinforcements in their battles and recall out safely without having to worry too much about losing all their progress at any moment, but if they start getting to the point they did in the last galactic war its only a matter of time until someone counters them somewhere; the only big catch to this is that if our goal with autorecall is to provide this safety net to lower ranks, we really should remove the increased income the enemy gets from forcing a player to autorecall (which honestly wasn't communicated very well in the first place and seemed to be no real deterrent to anyone). That said, yeah in the last galactic war it was just terrible to have high ranks with tons of money able to spam reinforcements constantly because they could always be assured of survival and if autorecall does not go it does definitely need a counter of some sort.

As to rebalancing costs and income (which we should make another thread on if we are going to talk in depth about it since this is nicely autorecall focused), as it relates to autorecall, the loss of autorecall would definitely help a bit with the problem of people getting tons of money and building up insane reinforcement piles, I honestly don't know if increased attack costs per rank made higher ranked players play more with lower ranked players (since we could just give attacks to higher ranked groups anyway, and uef seemed to not have any issue with pairing people of any rank together, even when we had higher ranked players paying for attacks for lower ranked ones due to lack of funds ). The only thing I'd worry about without autorecall around is the possibility that lesser skilled players might reach a mid-range rank (or just take 0 chances in combat at all and slowly grind their way up) and then sit there spending money on defenses and giving reinforcements to other people instead of playing and then eventually quit galactic war or that new GW players might get up to rank 2 or 3 and die constantly, discouraging them from playing GW more over normal games, but with autorecall and a counter to it in place they can hover around rank 3 if they want to play reasonably safely and this problem largely goes away; though another way to solve at least one of these problems would be to just decrease the income gained over time to be a lot less (which really is only needed now because attack costs increase so heavily from rank to rank). Anyway, I have a fair bit of time this morning and a ton of GW stuff drawn up so I'll get that all onto the computer and try to get a different topic on costs going.

Statistics: Posted by Rogueleader89 — 18 Nov 2014, 12:56

Re: Auto Recall

2014-11-17T23:52:59+02:00

Yeah I agree with manfet, I am really a fan of the galactic war playstyle and I think that autorecall kinda ruined it. If it ever comes back I think it should just be deleted or be really, really nerfed. I always liked the way that even pro players could be beaten because you had to be so careful.. And yeah, autorecall kinda got rid of the careful gameplay, because you had nothing to lose anyway. Also another big problem was that even the biggest noobs (600 rated) were rank 7's, so it was just a total reinforcement spamfest.. Every game had like 10 titans/loyals/harbs/othuums called in, which really ruined gameplay and made it dull. At that point the only reason I still played was because of the random map & random opponent feature. You never knew who you were up against, which is an epic feature.

And like manfet also said, you shouldn't punish lower rated players. I'm sure most high rated players wouldn't really care too bad if they don't get autorecall anymore, and it'll be way more fun for the lower rated when they once kill that precious rank 7 commander, it's a really cool feeling of accomplishment, and it's also yet another thing auto recall took away.

Anyways I'd love for galactic war to return soon even with autorecall and the old buggish version I still loved it.

Statistics: Posted by D4E_Omit — 17 Nov 2014, 23:52

Re: Auto Recall

2014-11-17T22:57:56+02:00

imho this idea does not fit - I already gave an answer to a similiar idea from IceDreamer here
below is a copy of that post with a new passage at the end
Sorry but I don't think your reasoining does work.
Your fear is that higher ranking people will stop playing because they have a high avatar rank
yes that can happen - on the other side they should not be worrying about that because they should be able to get to that rank quite fast again. In the first few GWs I was able to go rank 4 inside of 48 hours quite often.

your solution is to give high ranking people, that have shown that they can get 30 victories without loosing their commander once, the ability to buy an autorecall every 4-6 victories... So for the statistic they can buy at least 5 autorecall and probably will not loose one in that time frame...
And in that time they will scare off many noobs of Galactic War by destroying them all the time and if once the noobs have found a way to finally kill off an avatar that has been harassing them for quite a long time then that guy will just get autorecalled - wow... as a noob I would stop playing after that.

If you want to give higher ranks a reason to still play you should think about something else then punishing the lower rated people.
maybe the higher ranks should only get credits through winning and not by waiting but instead will even gain a small amount of credits even if they loose. or just gain when winning.

the bigger problem why higher rated people did not play is the buying an attack thing that gets higher cost with every rank.
The idea behind that was that it would make higher rated player work together with lower rated players.
in my opinion it did not help much. I think a better idea would be that people would get a higher amount of credits if they played together with lower rated players. Playing should not be punished. The target should be to get the highest possible amount of games going.

I still think that autorecall is bad idea. Galatic War had such a nice different playstyle compared to normal FA games. Why would we want to loose that. Imho autorecall does not have any advantages that can compensate for loosing the diversity in playstyle.

Statistics: Posted by theManfet — 17 Nov 2014, 22:57

Re: Auto Recall

2014-11-17T12:18:21+02:00

I really like the "autorecall blocker" idea. But what about my former idea:

RoLa wrote:
Perhaps it would be cool to restrict the autorecall feature only for the highest rank commanders and the retired ones. So only a faction leader and perhaps former leaders are not going to die.

I would do it like this:
- For every promotion you get one autorecall (you can stack them)
- faction leaders and perhaps former leaders get unlimited autorecalls
- very high ranked commanders can buy "autorecall blocker" blocking all autorecalls of foes and friends.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 17 Nov 2014, 12:18

Re: Auto Recall

2014-11-12T13:17:31+02:00

Alright I'm boosting this thread back up because I've been thinking about GW a lot lately (I'll probably post a thread of ideas later but autorecall really needs its own discussion and behold I found the old autorecall thread :p).

Let me start by saying that over time I've slowly been being won over by the victory cost for autorecall argument, but I think it has one great flaw, skilled highly ranked players will always have autorecall when it matters because they can minimize risks by playing against known enemies or lower ranks to get it. I think this will matter a ton if/when higher ranks have good control over larger functions of factions.

So I'm going to propose a new solution. First we raise the autorecall cost to 1000 because 500 is nothing. Second, we only allow the acu to have one equipped item slot which autorecall takes up. Third, we add a new item that takes up that slot which costs 2000 credits and blocks the autorecall of all enemy players from working so long as the player in possession of this equipped item is in the game, if they recall out or are killed the enemy can autorecall again. All players should be given a gui indication showing who has this autorecall blocker equipped. Manual recall is not affected at all. If a player with autorecall dies and is blocked from autorecalling the blocker goes away after the match is over and must be purchased again if you want to use it.

The goal behind this being that autorecall is still a viable thing but not invulnerability, it will be a good boost for keeping lesser skilled players in gw because they will have reasonable safety with it given that it's counter costs more and leaves someone vulnerable to death with a big target on their back, while it still allows people the chance to take that crazy shot at assassinating a valuable higher ranked opponent at great cost. If the enemy immediately recalls manually on sight of this counter its a victory and free credits plus the counter isn't gone. I'm guessing most people will take some risk though and see how the game goes for awhile especially if an important planet is being fought over. We could even keep a small victory cost for autorecall and the blocker if this isn't enough, I don't think we'll need to but it's still an option.

Now regardless of whether or not this sort of counter system is implemented I still think that acus should have a single equipment slot that autorecall takes up as it allows us to potentially add alternative upgrades that increase the likelyhood that someone might forgo autorecall in favor of something else, this is just me giving random probably poor examples here but these could be things like equipment that adds an additional reinforcement group that you can call in, or something that fills out/updates your faction's Intel sheet automatically with your opponent's name, rank, and victory/defeat record, or perhaps some ingame effect like allowing your acu to act as a beacon for reinforcements. Regardless providing rewarding alternatives to autorecall seems like something we should consider regardless of how the problem with it is solved. If we went with doubling the price of autorecall everytime you died (starting at a low cost) over a blocker system these alternative upgrades would become even more desirable over time as autorecall became less practical.

Statistics: Posted by Rogueleader89 — 12 Nov 2014, 13:17

Re: Auto Recall

2014-02-21T13:09:59+02:00

or a progression like this: 1st starting with 0+100 or 2nd with 50+50
free free
100100
200150
300250
500400
800650
13001050
21001700
34002750
55004450

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 21 Feb 2014, 13:09

Re: Auto Recall

2014-02-21T00:09:21+02:00

I think you're onto something, but I think the price should also lower with either wins or just games where auto recall wasn't used (minimum = original price). With well-tweaked numbers you can keep an incentive to not go rambo because you can't die anyway.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 21 Feb 2014, 00:09

Re: Auto Recall

2014-02-19T13:35:01+02:00

Hi guys
didnt read all pages so i dont know if that idea was already brought up:

how about making the autorecall cost more and more everytiime you buy it

doubling its price:

1 for free
2 250 credits
3 500 credits
4 1000 credits
.....

or rising the price like that

1 free
2 500 credits
3 1000 credits
4 1500 credits
...

Numbers here are taken randomly from me and should be tested for the perfect values but i think you get the idea.
this mechanic would make them more valuable.

Statistics: Posted by laPPen — 19 Feb 2014, 13:35

Re: Auto Recall

2014-02-18T11:43:30+02:00

i thought we agree that a cooldown will decrease player activity

I'm not convinced here. I think it will decrease player activity for the person on cool-down. But, it will increase it for everyone else.

As for the pairing of different skilled players. I think we can all agree that the secret to an active GW is having all skill levels able to participate. Which means that there needs to be some dynamic which inhibits to pairing of high and low skilled players.

The first balancing factor is economy of effort. If I can determine that an 800 rank player is attacking, and I am a 1400 player. I will seek to make the best use of my time in GW. Which means I will delegate the defence to a 1100 rank player - which leaves me free to engage higher level targets.

The second balancing factor is economic. If I have a level 5 or 6 avatar, and I need credits to stop the player. My attack cost is so high that defeating a level 1 or 2 avatar will not pay for the expense of launching my attack. By altering the amount of credits one wins for defeating certain levels it is easy to create disincentives for the mismatch. These mechanisms are already in place in the current Beta. All we need is to balance the credits for attack, defence, wins and losses.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 18 Feb 2014, 11:43

Re: Auto Recall

2014-02-18T11:17:46+02:00

Ok i thought we agree that a cooldown will decrease player activity and therefore is not good so i see there are different conflicts in this discussion already:

Enemy should know if you have autorecall --- Enemy should not know if you have autorecall
(Enemey can see if he has easy game and can easily push with acu --- Pokergame risk your acu or dont enemy cannot estimate)

Time limited cooldown on AR --- No timelimit on AR only limits with credits or things alike credits
(people could stop playing not to risk avatar, maybe decreasing activity --- people are forced to earn AR not with waiting time but with doing something)

Mechanics in the game which can kill an Acu in any case when unlucky --- Absolute security meanwhile Autorecall is active
(Could kill to easy high rank acus with kamikaze privates --- will lead to easy playiny with acu like in rank in some games, all or nothing)

Another short personal opinion from my side is: You are describing that when you make a victory count it will leave to slaughtering noobs or to get other easy wins to gain autorecall back. Whats the difference from now situation, I also slaughter victims to get easy credits, that seems to be a general problem which can be only solved by regulating ranks somehow according to player skill. So Rank 1 will hardly give any credits and it will be worth to kill/defeat the higher levels.

Do we have more big conflicts i have not seen from the discussion so far? Those conflicts should be solved. We should point out the conflicts and then either let Zep decide or for supporting the decision of him make a poll.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 18 Feb 2014, 11:17