Forged Alliance Forever

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-29T17:40:37+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
Lol, so a nerf to the othuum... and the seraphim sniper never had to deploy to begin with.

The "similar change" for seraphim sniper and aeon is that neither deploys anymore, and both have a turret that can shoot bacwkards (180°).
I believe that would enough, and that the speed buff on top of that will make them OP, but at least it'll be clear wether it's possible to counter Bricks and Percivals with them.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 29 May 2013, 17:40

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-29T16:47:25+02:00

Lol, so a nerf to the othuum... and the seraphim sniper never had to deploy to begin with.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 29 May 2013, 16:47

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-29T15:57:38+02:00

Yes.

You can discuss all that in the dedicated forum now.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 29 May 2013, 15:57

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-29T15:50:14+02:00

does the blaze will also get speed 4?

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 29 May 2013, 15:50

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-29T12:26:28+02:00

Nice changes. What about socks suggestion to make cyb ACU regen scale with vet?

Also what were the previous build times on the brick and Percy?

The sniper change is great in my IMO, I'm interested to see how it plays out. Will kiting armies of snipers, flak and shields now be viable? If they are it would also encourage the superior speed or the Titan and loyalist to come into play in the later tech three stages.

The veterancy change is nice as well, and the fatty and mega don't generally massacre units on the same level as yotha/ML ect.

It would be interesting to see if we could make a change to see titans and loyalists use more agianst other T3

Good patch.

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 29 May 2013, 12:26

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-29T12:17:29+02:00

- Aurora tweaks for make them easier to kite.

- Cybran ACU base regen to 17.
- Reverting medusa FiringRandomness to 1.35
- Slightly reduce cerberus DPS (damage = 10 from 11).

- Aeon sniper doesn't need to deploy. Same for seraphim sniper.
- Obsidian damage radius : 1.3 (from 1.5)

- -Yanzyne (T2 hoover tank) speed up to 4.
- Continental (T3 transport) shild energy consumption = 400 (from 250)

- Percival/Brick Builtime increase to 7200.

Veteran levels :
- Brick/Percival veteran level : 20/40/60/80/100 (from 9/18/27/36/45)
- Othuum and harbingers veteran levels : 15/30/45/60/75 (from 9/18/27/36/45)
- Monkeylord and Fatboy : 40/80/120/160/200 (from 75/150/225/300/375)
- Ythotah : 60/120/180/240/300 (from 75/150/225/300/375)
- GC and Megalith : 80/160/240/320/400 (from 100/200/300/400/500)

-Atlantis max speed =2.8 (from 2.5)
-Atlantis AA Aoe = 1.5 (from 0)

I think that's should make a good 3626 patch.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 29 May 2013, 12:17

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T18:16:44+02:00

pip wrote:
Also, the idea that "buildtime doesn't matter, you're limited by mass, etc " is wrong. If buildtimes and buildrates were not important parameters in the game, there wouldn't be a need for engy mod in the first place...

there is no need for it

Statistics: Posted by eXivo — 26 May 2013, 18:16

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T17:47:54+02:00

Sniper at 640 mass + Harbinger at 840 mass will cost not much more (1480 mass) than a single Percy (1280 mass) and will defeat it (which is normal : they cost slightly more). I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Also, the idea that "buildtime doesn't matter, you're limited by mass, etc " is wrong. If buildtimes and buildrates were not important parameters in the game, there wouldn't be a need for engy mod in the first place...

If you need an additional "cheap factory" to have more percies than before, it will also drain more mass from your eco (an additional -20 mass per sec,) while for the guy building harbingers + snipers will not require an additional factory to produce his units compared to the current situation, which means he can save 20 mass per second. The cheap factory may be cheap to build, but it's not cheap for your eco. Buildtime has a real impact, don't underestimate it.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 26 May 2013, 17:47

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T17:40:08+02:00

You are limited by mass in most games, not BP. Thats why it won't matter all the much. It just means the UEF player will need to build a few more cheap t3 factories.

Statistics: Posted by CrazedChariot — 26 May 2013, 17:40

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T15:07:39+02:00

CrazedChariot wrote:
I can't comment on the full extent of vet or sniper changes, but the Buildtime change won't effect that much. It will just delay the initial mass of percies. BP is easy to build, so instead of 6 factories you will just make 9.

It's all relative. While you focus on Percies production only, your opponent will have more units, more Harbingers, more snipers, because he can also have as many factories as you. If he can have 1 Sniper and 1 Harbinger (7200 buildtime) by the time you can have 1 Percy (7200 buildtime), which is the point of the buildtime adjustments, he will be able to counter the Percy.

As for the vet nerf, it gives t3 an additional strength they don't need to butcher t2 and t4. It's a general change, not only for Percies, but since Percies are the best t3 units with the most HP, they benefit from it even more. So nerfing t3 veterancy is really important for them.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 26 May 2013, 15:07

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T14:43:59+02:00

pip wrote:
Fixing t3 easily:

1) Adjust t3 units veterancy levels so that they are significantly higher than t2 units:
- Othuum and harbingers : 15/30/45/60/75 (from 9/18/27/36/45)
- Bricks and Percivals : 20/40/60/80/100 (from 9/18/27/36/45)

2) Adjust t4 veterancy levels so that it's easier to gain veterancy when fighting t3 units and still hard to vet when fighting t1 and t2 units:
- Monkeylord and Fatboy : 40/80/120/160/200 (from 75/150/225/300/375)
- Ythotah : 60/120/180/240/300 (from 75/150/225/300/375)
- GC and Megalith : 80/160/240/320/400 (from 100/200/300/400/500)

3) Increase the buildtime of the Percival and Brick to a significantly higher level (+50%): 7200 (from 4800)= 1:20 min instead of 53 seconds unassisted.

4) Improve the snipers' moving and shooting behaviour for easier micro (ignore t1 units if not manually targetted, and able to shoot while moving backwards = unlocking the turret and removing deploy animation) and set their cost to half a Percival = 640 mass and 3600 buildtime.

I can't comment on the full extent of vet or sniper changes, but the Buildtime change won't effect that much. It will just delay the initial mass of percies. BP is easy to build, so instead of 6 factories you will just make 9.

Statistics: Posted by CrazedChariot — 26 May 2013, 14:43

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T12:39:36+02:00

i think the sniper bots are good enough as they are, maybe some increase in HP but they are sniper, thats kinda the idea of them, weak, fast, but incredible range and accuracy, put it this way, things like a wave of percies are basically the real live version of a battalion of tanks, and a few snipers are strategic units designed to be fast and stealthy to maybe kill 1 person in their entire career, yes FA is not like real life but the concepts are the same, you don't use snipers as the main attacking force, you flank find a painful target and take it out, like with most of aeon, they are kinda a hit and run race, that's where they come in.
However i must totally agree with pip's last paragraph, its surprising how easily a named SCU can trick people, ive done it a couple times

Statistics: Posted by Hammie — 26 May 2013, 12:39

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T12:05:43+02:00

Sniper spam is impossible because you can hardly keep them alive (450 HP, seriously) as well as Percies or Brick. Percies spam is 10 times more dangerous for ACU. Name me a single replay in engy mod where snipers actually assassinated an ACU. You will have a hard time. Now, check where Percy spam just rollover everything and assassinated an ACU : there are hundreds of these replays.

What is static if you have to fight with t3 units without your ACU around? You fear he might be bored at home in his base? When you hide your ACU in water for fear of t2 bomber snipe, it makes the game more static? I don't buy this argument sorry. It's true that we should not overbuff snipers (and that's why they should not be as cheap as 480 mass, as was suggested above), but it's not a reason to keep them as shitty as they are now.

It's simple : when you spot that your opponent has snipers, you keep your ACU safe or you invest in mobile shields / personal shields / nano upgrade or better : invest in SCU. They are meant to take over the role of offensive support unit lategame. You don't go around and play Rambo when your opponent has t3 bombers, why should it be different for snipers? Snipers should be dangerous assassins, watch some movies ^^.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 26 May 2013, 12:05

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T11:27:23+02:00

I don't think sniper spam viable has anything benefic for the game play. you won't see acus in action anymore, the games will end in some really static situations i'm affraid.

Statistics: Posted by Lu_Xun_17 — 26 May 2013, 11:27

Re: FA pre-patch changelog.

2013-05-26T09:13:43+02:00

Fixing t3 easily:

1) Adjust t3 units veterancy levels so that they are significantly higher than t2 units:
- Othuum and harbingers : 15/30/45/60/75 (from 9/18/27/36/45)
- Bricks and Percivals : 20/40/60/80/100 (from 9/18/27/36/45)

2) Adjust t4 veterancy levels so that it's easier to gain veterancy when fighting t3 units and still hard to vet when fighting t1 and t2 units:
- Monkeylord and Fatboy : 40/80/120/160/200 (from 75/150/225/300/375)
- Ythotah : 60/120/180/240/300 (from 75/150/225/300/375)
- GC and Megalith : 80/160/240/320/400 (from 100/200/300/400/500)

3) Increase the buildtime of the Percival and Brick to a significantly higher level (+50%): 7200 (from 4800)= 1:20 min instead of 53 seconds unassisted.

4) Improve the snipers' moving and shooting behaviour for easier micro (ignore t1 units if not manually targetted, and able to shoot while moving backwards = unlocking the turret and removing deploy animation) and set their cost to half a Percival = 640 mass and 3600 buildtime.

If you do this, all t3 balance problems will be solved, though it will take a bit of time for players to adjust because they are not used to make snipers (to counter them, it's very easy : mix your t3 army with t1 and t2). This will force the smart players to have mixed t3 armies with also lower tier units, mobile shields and stealth among them and not just brainless armies or Percies.

I'm attaching the bp of the snipers because there are several things that need to be changed in order to fix their behaviour properly.
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Side note @Zep: I don't understand why you personnally want to handle the balance process yourself : it's a can of worms, it's time consuming, it's frustrating and inevitably stir commotions among the players (ask Zock and Rock their feeling about the "PR nerf" to Cybran).
You are sure to antagonize a part of the players whatever you chose to change, and also if you don't change something. I'm not sure it's a good feeling to have when working on something as big and demanding as GW.
On top of that, it requires a lot of time to read the forum / chat and make judgements about the good ideas and the not so good ones, it takes even more time to check in game the effect of any little change, that I believe is better spent on GW coding / game designing.
So, really, why do you prefer to handle the balance testing yourself? You surely seem to be someone always looking for the most efficient way to achieve something, but in this case,I doubt it's the most efficient way.

Statistics: Posted by pip — 26 May 2013, 09:13