Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2015-04-17T20:13:49+02:00 /feed.php?f=42&t=9801 2015-04-17T20:13:49+02:00 2015-04-17T20:13:49+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98752#p98752 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]> Statistics: Posted by yeager — 17 Apr 2015, 20:13


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2015-04-17T19:57:36+02:00 2015-04-17T19:57:36+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98750#p98750 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
zeroAPM wrote:
You forgot that it also cost 100 less mass (but 1200 more energy, not that much at T3) than all the other SACUs and has 19k HP compared to every other faction's 16k!!!!!!!
Also 25 regen compared to 20 for everyone else.

Yep, it's definitely OP

I was speaking about his thought of moving aa upgrade on hand from back and said in that case it would be OP. I didn't compare it with other SCUs, as you might have understood.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 17 Apr 2015, 19:57


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2015-04-17T18:42:24+02:00 2015-04-17T18:42:24+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98741#p98741 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
zeroAPM wrote:
Apofenas wrote:
ZeRen wrote:it would be nice if that AA upgrade would be on arm, couse is just better to use regen +T3mAA/build SAM , the fast dying AA SACU


19k hp is fast dying? Really? Even with that imagine now: insane 425 regen, SAM aa, emp+aoe or range(depending on arm) combine it with good speed, ability to build, reclaim and produce a little mass. Sounds OP.

What you say is not exactly better. Sam doesn't move and t3 maa is not as good. The best way is to mix AA SCUs with rambos if it goes this way.


You forgot that it also cost 100 less mass (but 1200 more energy, not that much at T3) than all the other SACUs and has 19k HP compared to every other faction's 16k!!!!!!!
Also 25 regen compared to 20 for everyone else.

Yep, it's definitely OP


actually aeon cost less than cybran. sera has 400 dps, whereas all other faction have 300 dps; and get +2 mass, +200 e.
And to get the sam, you need to pay 800 more mass.
I think it doesn't really matter to discuss about sACU without upgrade anyway, since those upgrade matters way more.

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 17 Apr 2015, 18:42


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2015-04-17T18:16:41+02:00 2015-04-17T18:16:41+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98739#p98739 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
Apofenas wrote:
ZeRen wrote:it would be nice if that AA upgrade would be on arm, couse is just better to use regen +T3mAA/build SAM , the fast dying AA SACU


19k hp is fast dying? Really? Even with that imagine now: insane 425 regen, SAM aa, emp+aoe or range(depending on arm) combine it with good speed, ability to build, reclaim and produce a little mass. Sounds OP.

What you say is not exactly better. Sam doesn't move and t3 maa is not as good. The best way is to mix AA SCUs with rambos if it goes this way.


You forgot that it also cost 100 less mass (but 1200 more energy, not that much at T3) than all the other SACUs and has 19k HP compared to every other faction's 16k!!!!!!!
Also 25 regen compared to 20 for everyone else.

Yep, it's definitely OP

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 17 Apr 2015, 18:16


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2015-04-17T15:57:13+02:00 2015-04-17T15:57:13+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98730#p98730 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
ZeRen wrote:
it would be nice if that AA upgrade would be on arm, couse is just better to use regen +T3mAA/build SAM , the fast dying AA SACU


19k hp is fast dying? Really? Even with that imagine now: insane 425 regen, SAM aa, emp+aoe or range(depending on arm) combine it with good speed, ability to build, reclaim and produce a little mass. Sounds OP.

What you say is not exactly better. Sam doesn't move and t3 maa is not as good. The best way is to mix AA SCUs with rambos if it goes this way.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 17 Apr 2015, 15:57


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2015-04-17T15:47:17+02:00 2015-04-17T15:47:17+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98726#p98726 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
Apofenas wrote:
Cybran SCU AA is so much brilliant weapon. There is no need to change it and ofc buff it. It turns SCU into walking SAM with 19k hp, ability to build, reclaim and shoot units. SAMs themselves rape air - it's a fact.
SCUs has been discussed again and again since a long time. For example here viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7219
They will probably be the main focus of next balance patch, but nothing should be made untill hitboxes are fixed on them.
There were a lot of suggestions of changing aeon SCUs: adding gun upgrade, mini chrono dumpherner, absolver effect, ect. It will be done by balance counsilor.(Though nobody knows when and how)
Chicken bot, GC and pretty much any direct fire experimental looses mass for mass to its t3 equivalent(even titans) in direct fight. But the thing is, you need ~10 more time to get t3 units with same build power. It's major issue of t4 vs t3, not chicken bot vs experimentals. I had an idea to make it like in diamond mode, where only SCUs can build experimentals, which would be far stronger for their mass cost, but also long to build, as it should be. But it needs opinion of experienced players.
Othuum is most likely going to get dps tweak between its weapons, but again it's up to balance counsior.


it would be nice if that AA upgrade would be on arm, couse is just better to use regen +T3mAA/build SAM , the fast dying AA SACU

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 17 Apr 2015, 15:47


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2015-04-17T08:07:30+02:00 2015-04-17T08:07:30+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98704#p98704 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]> In my opinion sera t3 navy was a bit over nerfed, but there were reasons for it, but it's not as bad as you think.

T3 land only needs dps tweak on othuum and smal speed buff to it and may be regeneration buff to their mobile shield. That's it. Sniper bots' role is to shoot percivals from range and force them to come in close. In close range othuums win since they have more both dps/mass and hore hp/mass. Atm it's ot that easy to do in real game, but possible.

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 17 Apr 2015, 08:07


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2015-04-16T18:45:34+02:00 2015-04-16T18:45:34+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98654#p98654 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]> Statistics: Posted by yeager — 16 Apr 2015, 18:45


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2015-04-16T18:07:33+02:00 2015-04-16T18:07:33+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98652#p98652 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]> Maybe someone else will do it. Sorry if it's a bit of a disappointment but I feel like this is going nowhere xD

Statistics: Posted by Ceneraii — 16 Apr 2015, 18:07


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2015-04-16T17:39:37+02:00 2015-04-16T17:39:37+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98649#p98649 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
Ceneraii wrote:
If you dodge against aeon destro's the seraphim wins by quite a long shot actually. Well if you start navy with subs that's your choice, but I recommend making frigates instead, t1 subs are more or less useless and shouldn't be built unless you really have no other choice. Sera torp bomber is ass, true. But so is every other one except cybran. As for the seraphim gunship, well it's a little worse but the difference is marginal at best. The seraphim t3 subs outrange cybran t2 ones by 20 (almost 50% more range) and have beastly AA as well. The t3 subs are micro units, kind of like rangebots for navy.

But cybran have stealth, so range is mute, that's why cybrans win in spam, gunship is weaker than uef in every respect and doesn't have transport clamp. I get where your going with t3 sub but you have to remember it can be 1 shoted my aeon t3 torp bomber, that is retarded at best, it use to have health enough to survive one shot but now doesn't, this is crap, and Brink will back me here.
And as for destroyer your proving my original point, it demands heavily micro, not just against aeon but uef too, or u lose to torpedo boat, destroyer combo and cybran is a tie unless he quick snags a mermaid, in which case you have to get a frigate (this is where my t1 torp flair comes in, everyone as a support unit at t2 but sera[aeon mobile shield+ destroyer beat any navy equivilant at t2])
P.s. Thanks for walking me threw this

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 16 Apr 2015, 17:39


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2015-04-16T17:25:12+02:00 2015-04-16T17:25:12+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98648#p98648 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
http://content.faforever.com/faf/vault/ ... id=3330842

Statistics: Posted by Ceneraii — 16 Apr 2015, 17:25


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2015-04-16T17:03:35+02:00 2015-04-16T17:03:35+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98644#p98644 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
Ceneraii wrote:
yeager wrote:Yeah, I know, sera have great t2 an aeon great t1, but this fades out late game, also I wasn't going to ground the precise soo hard, but the air to ground for sera at t3 is bomber, although good, doesn't seem to be able to save the day from Percival spam
As for only looking at one tier: sera have bad t1, kind like cybran (art is 50% better and costs 50% more, silencing the advantage) great t2, horrible t3 (although it is good when u can eliminate variables an fight on flat maps) on navy their t1 is crap, t2 demands heavy micro, and t3 sup isn't any better than the cybran t2 counter part right now (which is super dumb) and for air: sera has t1 advantage, by far the worst t2 (although fighter bomber is good) and t3 barely holds overall, although the scout is great. Seeing this I wanted a sera navy buff, where sera t1 sub was still the worst but had torpedo flair instead, giving it purpose later, like cybran arty, t2 is fine i guess, and the subhunter was nerfed too much. As for land I just want oothum to walk the talk on the battle field, so it can hold up against precivals in appropriate numbers. That about it ( for sera):D
Oh, and I love sniper bots against early monkeys, try harder acu rushes, and sACUs attacks, but like I said they aren't cost effective agains the Percival, not unless they are behind a bunch of t2 pd to finish the job when the Percival gets close


Sera t1 isn't bad, it's quite good. Their arty costs more because it hovers (an extreme advantage!), their t1 navy is good (subs are not really relevant in navy battle, frigates are where it's at), their t2 navy is arguably the best together with cybran and requires the least micro compared to other t2 navies (their destroyer can't miss!). The t3 subs require intense micro but will wreck anything otherwise. As for t1 air.. They have the best bomber and their t2 air isn't much different from other factions t2 air (other than aeon), although they have superior transports. Well othuum could use slight dps shift, but sera t3 armies with good composition can be absolutely devastating compared to their counterparts, what makes them suffer a lot at t3 stage in my opinion is that their mobile shield is kind of shit (way worse shield hp/mass compared to aeon and uef t2 shields... this for a shield that only becomes available at higher tech is kinda retarded). As for sniper bots, have you tried the fire toggle? :P They outrun percies and are twice as cheap. With 2 sniper bots that's a 4k dmg volley every 15 seconds. (http://content.faforever.com/faf/vault/ ... ?id=333074)

I want trying to say t1 land sucked, but I isn't the best by a ways, t2 destroyer has a Nasty habit of firing before it's beams are Locked on and is wreaked by aeon, I don't know when the last I started my navy production witha frigate was, t2 gunship and torp bomber suck compered to their counter parts, case closed, and t3 subs lose against t2 cybran subs, unless u keep a cruser in the mix (which always dies). Thanks for the sniper bot vid. And yes, the sera shield is horrible in hein site. And like I said sera t3 sucks in general except on flat maps, where it rules

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 16 Apr 2015, 17:03


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2015-04-16T16:45:46+02:00 2015-04-16T16:45:46+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98642#p98642 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
yeager wrote:
Yeah, I know, sera have great t2 an aeon great t1, but this fades out late game, also I wasn't going to ground the precise soo hard, but the air to ground for sera at t3 is bomber, although good, doesn't seem to be able to save the day from Percival spam
As for only looking at one tier: sera have bad t1, kind like cybran (art is 50% better and costs 50% more, silencing the advantage) great t2, horrible t3 (although it is good when u can eliminate variables an fight on flat maps) on navy their t1 is crap, t2 demands heavy micro, and t3 sup isn't any better than the cybran t2 counter part right now (which is super dumb) and for air: sera has t1 advantage, by far the worst t2 (although fighter bomber is good) and t3 barely holds overall, although the scout is great. Seeing this I wanted a sera navy buff, where sera t1 sub was still the worst but had torpedo flair instead, giving it purpose later, like cybran arty, t2 is fine i guess, and the subhunter was nerfed too much. As for land I just want oothum to walk the talk on the battle field, so it can hold up against precivals in appropriate numbers. That about it ( for sera):D
Oh, and I love sniper bots against early monkeys, try harder acu rushes, and sACUs attacks, but like I said they aren't cost effective agains the Percival, not unless they are behind a bunch of t2 pd to finish the job when the Percival gets close


Sera t1 isn't bad, it's quite good. Their arty costs more because it hovers (an extreme advantage!), their t1 navy is good (subs are not really relevant in navy battle, frigates are where it's at), their t2 navy is arguably the best together with cybran and requires the least micro compared to other t2 navies (their destroyer can't miss!). The t3 subs require intense micro but will wreck anything otherwise. As for t1 air.. They have the best bomber and their t2 air isn't much different from other factions t2 air (other than aeon), although they have superior transports. Well othuum could use slight dps shift, but sera t3 armies with good composition can be absolutely devastating compared to their counterparts, what makes them suffer a lot at t3 stage in my opinion is that their mobile shield is kind of shit (way worse shield hp/mass compared to aeon and uef t2 shields... this for a shield that only becomes available at higher tech is kinda retarded). As for sniper bots, have you tried the fire toggle? :P They outrun percies and are twice as cheap. With 2 sniper bots that's a 4k dmg volley every 15 seconds. (http://content.faforever.com/faf/vault/ ... id=3330743)

Statistics: Posted by Ceneraii — 16 Apr 2015, 16:45


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2015-04-16T16:24:38+02:00 2015-04-16T16:24:38+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98640#p98640 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
Apofenas wrote:
Cybran SCU AA is so much brilliant weapon. There is no need to change it and ofc buff it. It turns SCU into walking SAM with 19k hp, ability to build, reclaim and shoot units. SAMs themselves rape air - it's a fact.
SCUs has been discussed again and again since a long time. For example here viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7219
They will probably be the main focus of next balance patch, but nothing should be made untill hitboxes are fixed on them.
There were a lot of suggestions of changing aeon SCUs: adding gun upgrade, mini chrono dumpherner, absolver effect, ect. It will be done by balance counsilor.(Though nobody knows when and how)
Chicken bot, GC and pretty much any direct fire experimental looses mass for mass to its t3 equivalent(even titans) in direct fight. But the thing is, you need ~10 more time to get t3 units with same build power. It's major issue of t4 vs t3, not chicken bot vs experimentals. I had an idea to make it like in diamond mode, where only SCUs can build experimentals, which would be far stronger for their mass cost, but also long to build, as it should be. But it needs opinion of experienced players.
Othuum is most likely going to get dps tweak between its weapons, but again it's up to balance counsior.

Yeah, I was just trying to keep from being racist against cybrans in my talk, you know how touchy things are these days lol

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 16 Apr 2015, 16:24


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2015-04-16T16:29:52+02:00 2015-04-16T16:23:15+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=9801&p=98639#p98639 <![CDATA[Re: SACUS AND T3 land]]>
Ceneraii wrote:
SACU's suffer from hitbox problems and some other issues atm (shield disruptor not working against the shield, etc) so yes they are horribly broken. Aeon is a touchy subject, they are already incredibly strong with oprora and harb rush. Othuums are indeed not that great, but snipers are incredibly good actually. Percies and bricks are fine. Remember that uef doesn't have a direct-fire experimental so it makes sense that percies are their experimental killer, the buildtime discrepancy between t3 and experimentals means that it's not that hard to get an exp out before there's a meaningful amount of percies on the field.

Also food for thought, I saw some of your previous balance ideas and I get the feeling you are only looking at individual units but you should remember that the factions are balanced for the length of the entire game. What this means is that it's pointless to look just at t4 stage, you have to look at the balance from t1 to t4 stage and how those effects pile up :) It's common mistake for new players to make so don't worry about it.

Yeah, I know, sera have great t2 an aeon great t1, but this fades out late game, also I wasn't going to ground the precise soo hard, but the air to ground for sera at t3 is bomber, although good, doesn't seem to be able to save the day from Percival spam
As for only looking at one tier: sera have bad t1, kind like cybran (art is 50% better and costs 50% more, silencing the advantage) great t2, horrible t3 (although it is good when u can eliminate variables an fight on flat maps) on navy their t1 is crap, t2 demands heavy micro, and t3 sup isn't any better than the cybran t2 counter part right now (which is super dumb) and for air: sera has t1 advantage, by far the worst t2 (although fighter bomber is good) and t3 barely holds overall, although the scout is great. Seeing this I wanted a sera navy buff, where sera t1 sub was still the worst but had torpedo flair instead, giving it purpose later, like cybran arty, t2 is fine i guess, and the subhunter was nerfed too much. As for land I just want oothum to walk the talk on the battle field, so it can hold up against precivals in appropriate numbers. That about it ( for sera):D
Oh, and I love sniper bots against early monkeys, try harder acu rushes, and sACUs attacks, but like I said they aren't cost effective agains the Percival, not unless they are behind a bunch of t2 pd to finish the job when the Percival gets close

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 16 Apr 2015, 16:23


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