Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-27T21:35:00+02:00

Neutrino wrote:
Apologies in advance, but since this game is no longer supported by the original publisher is there any reason why we can't get the damn source code?

Welcome to the wonderful, wonderful world of copyright laws and proprietary software

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Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 27 Mar 2015, 21:35

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-27T17:38:06+02:00

Apologies in advance, but since this game is no longer supported by the original publisher is there any reason why we can't get the damn source code?

Statistics: Posted by Neutrino — 27 Mar 2015, 17:38

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-27T17:13:40+02:00

Frozen_byte wrote:
Sheeo wrote:I'll add here that it would be possible to upport all of the FA assets to the Supcom 2 engine (It shares a pretty much identical API).

Are you telling us it's possible to upport all FA-Features to SC2 or
are you telling us it's possible to downport all SC2-Features to FA?
I got confused @_@

AFAIK it was not possible to port anything from SC2 to FA - theoretically of course.

Upporting

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 27 Mar 2015, 17:13

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-27T11:20:44+02:00

Sheeo wrote:
I'll add here that it would be possible to upport all of the FA assets to the Supcom 2 engine (It shares a pretty much identical API).

Are you telling us it's possible to upport all FA-Features to SC2 or
are you telling us it's possible to downport all SC2-Features to FA?
I got confused @_@

AFAIK it was not possible to port anything from SC2 to FA - theoretically of course.

Statistics: Posted by Frozen_byte — 27 Mar 2015, 11:20

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T23:25:46+02:00

I'll add here that it would be possible to upport all of the FA assets to the Supcom 2 engine (It shares a pretty much identical API).

Issue is this would be in violation of GPG rights -- they explicitly stated that they wouldn't allow it -- along with the fact that the supcom2 engine uses encryption and validates the core game files that it loads.

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 26 Mar 2015, 23:25

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T21:06:04+02:00

I have realized over time and working as a professional that released products are often never "good enough" and we always want to take them apart and craft them better according to our own visions.

Plain and simple I'm sick of watching units clump together and some get stuck on mountains, but it is what it is.

Thanks for the replies and explanations.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 26 Mar 2015, 21:06

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T19:45:19+02:00

well i looked at this very short supreme commander advertisement and i am not astonished.
as always, the american way of trying to sell something is using big words for a crappy thing.
just give it a cool name (thats where the USA shines) and sell the crap.
its like today google calls it somehow laboratories for android and others try to do the same. microsoft also talks about research when trying to make some stuff easier.
why not talk about small problems in short words? they make such a great fuss about some stupid stuff, i am always astonished that they are still today are able to sell crap on tv.
argh, i could talk on and on but i will stop here and tell you what i see:

the A* (A star) path finding algorithm is used for many games. nothing new so far.
the pathfinding worked already kind of ok for total annihilation. enyway, meanwhile the TA patch team has even polished the code (http://www.tauniverse.com/).
back then, they also calculated the pathfinding including wrecks.
INCLUDING WRECKS! awesome stuff there.

well, remember the time when TA came out and what a PC we had?
ok, now supreme commander and FA bring this thing out. units, as all of you know, walk THROUGH the wreckage.

this might be ok for almost any player today in FA, and in TA times it was kind of annoying if you blocked yourself the way into the enemies base by your own wrecks, but that was also one really good tactical decision that had to be made. with every massed attack, the way you chose into the enemy base was full of wrecks. it acted like a dragon teeth defense.
ok, enough said about this.

also, it would be nice to see a MOD that would try this out in FA. i greatly would appreciate this, maybe there is already for a long time such a mod..

back to the algorythm chris is talking about:
now i do not know whith what acronyms gas powered games gave name to the newly invented "walk through wrecks" solution that was such a game changer nobody else ever thought about (except software companies that were made up of one person that did not even have the time to program a collision model or function).
they threw it out to bring out the game faster (like always..).
now they did much good, but in this case it can be discussed about on and on...
also the elevation bonus was taken out. back in TA you could position a unit up on a hill and if it was ballisitic, it fired further..
well, they dumped that tooo..
also, units keep firing in the dirt.. awesome.
well, back to the awesome pathfinding chris talks about, called the "flow field system"
before, like he himselfexplains is the problem that two or more moving objects have to calculate over and over a path that is passable.
it is not easy, but it is done.. the units need time..
(just as a side note: think about real units and how they would behave... there will be accidents..)
better would be if you do not try this stupid idea and move one blob around the other.
now, the awesome "flow field system" does the following:
every unit gets a field around it and pushes the other unit to the side. there is no great calculation to it, it just pushes the other unit away as does the other unit.
when the path is free, no pushing has to be done.
GREAT (irony).
this is not realistic but gives all units a "hover" ability so to speak.
tanks are able to move sideways if the hit each other.
you also see this behavior when bigger units come close to smaller units. they push smaller units away. this looks crappy and that is one aspect why SC2 plays so shitty. you can feel that it is a game that has no soul.
i would not even want that "flow field system".
every game that chris made so far was worse than before. but TA and SC were diamonds. and then there comes nothing.. really nothing.

just my opinion..

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 26 Mar 2015, 19:45

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T19:55:23+02:00

We are completely locked at the Moho engine.
Even if we reverse-engineer the Path finding part, and are able to change it.
It's illegal because of copyright.

We are bond to the Mods, which are not able to change Engines behavior.

Statistics: Posted by Frozen_byte — 26 Mar 2015, 19:44

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T19:57:14+02:00

The problem is that reverse-engineering (going from the installed game to the source code) for such a product is impractical or flat out impossible with the resources FAF has.

I mean yes you can get the general idea and then write the code anew, but in reality it is not as simple as it looks on TV. Sorry.

Statistics: Posted by Stout — 26 Mar 2015, 18:16

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T17:49:14+02:00

You are correct: I don't have any clue. I'm not a software engineer, but when as an engineer when I see new technology around that solves a problem in previous designs I source it and reverse-engineer it.

Could you elaborate on your statement a little further? I don't understand why this is not a relevant suggestion.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 26 Mar 2015, 17:49

Re: Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T17:37:58+02:00

Morax wrote:
I'm just going to leave this here and see what happens

folks are gonna tell you that neither of the 2 games' source code is open
and optionally tell you that you have no clue.

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 26 Mar 2015, 17:37

Pathfinding Solution in Supp Comm 2 code?

2015-03-26T17:30:16+02:00

I'm not certain if the Supreme Commander 2 source code has been opened up like Forged Alliance, but one thing I remember about it that was VERY NICE is the new "flowfield pathfinding" per Chris Taylor's words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovlsENv1g4

I know you guys are REALLY busy with a lot of things, but I'm just going to leave this here and see what happens

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 26 Mar 2015, 17:30