Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-13T17:33:47+02:00

If it is in fact spherical then the nuke defense might not even hit nukes flying overhead and only hit ones actualy aimed at the area the sub is protecting instead. Better for balance.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 13 Feb 2015, 17:33

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-09T16:46:29+02:00

E8400-CV wrote:
Aulex wrote:
KrogothFTW wrote:Are anti-nuke ranges cylindrical or spherical?

Spherical

Are you sure?

I only think this because when a nuke is coming down right at the edge of the range and right before the nuke hits the ground the SMD fires. I may be wrong, I just remember it happening to me and seeing it in a few casts.

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 09 Feb 2015, 16:46

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-09T09:24:47+02:00

Aulex wrote:
KrogothFTW wrote:Are anti-nuke ranges cylindrical or spherical?

Spherical

Are you sure?

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 09 Feb 2015, 09:24

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-07T14:26:29+02:00

I'm pretty sure its cylindrical.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 07 Feb 2015, 14:26

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-07T11:18:31+02:00

So a short enough max radius would not reach the cruising altitude of a nuke.

Statistics: Posted by KrogothFTW — 07 Feb 2015, 11:18

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-07T09:19:35+02:00

KrogothFTW wrote:
Are anti-nuke ranges cylindrical or spherical?

Spherical

Statistics: Posted by Aulex — 07 Feb 2015, 09:19

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-07T09:08:49+02:00

Are anti-nuke ranges cylindrical or spherical?

Statistics: Posted by KrogothFTW — 07 Feb 2015, 09:08

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-07T01:55:58+02:00

SLight derail -
But why don't we have mobile anti-nukes period, like the hedgehog and... something else in TA; core contingency?

Statistics: Posted by Sovietpride — 07 Feb 2015, 01:55

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-05T10:25:14+02:00

Btw, i remember, in vanila SMD could be built on water. What was the reason they removed it?

Statistics: Posted by Apofenas — 05 Feb 2015, 10:25

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-05T09:56:57+02:00

E8400-CV wrote:
codepants wrote:
E8400-CV wrote:I like the idea of a mobile anti-nuke.

The problem with this is that it also blocks anything behind it. You could essentially park an anti-nuke sub right outside your opponent's base and render their nuke ineffective (the closer you are to the base, the fewer firing angles they have). This dramatically changes the dynamic of the game.
[...]

Did you read any more than the first line? From that same post:

E8400-CV wrote:
[...]
And it shouldn't shoot down nukes that fly over, only those that would land in it's cover area. Otherwise you could just sail it into position on maps like Ozone and have one boat cover your entire mainland plus navy factories, given you have early into on firing direction.

I did not read that part, but I still think that wouldn't work, (a) because it's an even more challenging dynamic to balance, (b) because I'm not sure it's technically possible, or worth the technical difficulty.

The rest of my argument stands.

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 05 Feb 2015, 09:56

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-03T19:47:45+02:00

On the other hand mobile antinuke or smd promotes agression over turtling at some point, but seen from another perspective it would give one the hability to stop nukes even after losing static SMD which helps to turtle... IDK}

I did say short ranged and i mean like t2 point defence range here. Not too usefull when projecting a base

I dont see why this shouldn't be added as an enhancement option. Hence adding a anti-nuke would mean giving up the subs nuke capabilities. Either that or allow for a water based Anti-Nuke to be built.

I agree giving nuke subs both nuke and anti nuke capabilities would make them very strong, prehaps even too strong. Yeah an upgrade is a way to go about this. That said then the anti nuke sub should also be cheaper. It could be an anti nuke sub by default and then upgraded to use nukes. I think this change would upset too many players though.

As for the second option for Cybran there is no way to defend it against bombers. They lack shields and then the shields available for the other factions are not that strong. Because of the ease of sniping it i see it as useless. I think it is best its a sub as by the time you have an anti nuke sub you also have a few cruisers and ASF and mobile shields (Cybran one is stealthed) its very hard for T2 torp bombers to get through to actually kill the thing.

Another change i would like is giving the fatboy 2 TMD defenses instead of its useless AA guns. Thats a whole other balance discussion for another day though. These is a mod for that somewhere already. Its just the shield bubble is so easy to hit with missiles and UEF dont have loyalists.

I did have a go at making the mod but unfortunately could not get it to work. I am not too good at making mods although look in my sig for one i have made. Its a little outdated now as i know FAF did change some commander upgrades.

Statistics: Posted by noobymcnoobcake — 03 Feb 2015, 19:47

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-03T15:07:24+02:00

Lets not glorify GPG now. Tracking tmls anyone? OP restos? etc.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 03 Feb 2015, 15:07

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-03T14:57:36+02:00

Total Annihilation had mobile anti nukes.

The same team made Supcom 10 years later and then decided (even after an expansion pack) not to implement a mobile anti-nuke.

What do we learn from this ?

Original game-design doesnt feature any mobile countermeasure (no mobile tmds besides navy, no mobile smds)
They were there in previous game, so maybe after a lot of gamedesign and feedback from TA the GPG team knew it was better for the game not to add them at all ?
We should think very hard about this and explain thought process, conclusions, show examples from the past before asking to create new units to maybe just go back to a gamebalance that was here in 1997 and that GPG didnt want to reimplement in 2007

It's like the overcharge : in TA you could one-shot anything with it (including ennemy ACU iirc), now it is not like that anymore. I am pretty sure not one-shotting everything is better. Maybe it is the same with mobile SMD. (i dont know i didnt thought about it)

On the other hand mobile antinuke or smd promotes agression over turtling at some point, but seen from another perspective it would give one the hability to stop nukes even after losing static SMD which helps to turtle... IDK

But yes i have also seen a lot of nukes fired at navy (from close range nuke subs or nuke launchers builidings), and even battleships have time to split up. I rarely see nukes paying for themselves when fired at navy.

What we really need here is a buff for nuke fired to navy !!! Not a ship SMD.

For those of you that were already born in 2006, Chris Taylor stated in interviews with game press that he wanted, when you fire a nuke at water that the resulting tsunami would happen and damage nearby units or the bases near beach.

So GPG game-design philosophy was more like "double nuke ranke on water to hurt stuff with waves" than "let's add an antinukemissile ship"

Story doesnt tell if the tsunami was rejected in retail because of money/time/technical issues or if its because it was a bad thing regarding balance no matter how they tuned it.

Statistics: Posted by Poch — 03 Feb 2015, 14:57

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-02T22:49:43+02:00

IceDreamer wrote:
Put them on Aircraft Carriers, Subs are already used...

So how would this be done without first updating the units mesh and textures to provide for a missile launcher.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 02 Feb 2015, 22:49

Re: Giving nuke subs a shot range anti nuke

2015-02-02T22:46:49+02:00

noobymcnoobcake wrote:
Just a suggestion. from a discussion in chat with angry 247. I suggested being able to build anti nuke on water like you would a SAM. He said its probably better to use nuke subs instead as anti nukes due to the impossibility of defending the building.

Late game navy has no nuke defense and due to the slow speed nukes, at times, can be somewhat uncountable. I was just thinking about giving nuke sub the option to build a short range anti nuke missile. You would need two or more to cover a large fleet and good micro to make sure your fleet is covered.

Just something to think about anyways and i am wondering how this will affect game play. It might make the already unstoppable UEF t3 navy even stronger. That is the only downside I see to this.

I dont see why this shouldn't be added as an enhancement option. Hence adding a anti-nuke would mean giving up the subs nuke capabilities. Either that or allow for a water based Anti-Nuke to be built.

Resin

Statistics: Posted by Resin_Smoker — 02 Feb 2015, 22:46