Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-06T07:57:48+02:00

Blodir wrote:
Playing like this will only degrade your gameplay even further. Don't rely on timings in FA, instead respond to your opponents actions.

Not everybody plays to be a pro. If they want to have a timer, let them have a timer.

Sure, you don't want to rely on timings, but going with the example in OP, it would be nice to be able to, for example, have a wake up call to make sure I have an antinuke at a certain time. I don't want to always wait for the timer to build it, but I know if I hit this timer and I haven't even thought about it that I probably screwed up.

Statistics: Posted by RedX — 06 Sep 2014, 07:57

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-04T16:46:32+02:00

Alright I guess I owe you a little more of an explanation. You need to be aware of your own goals first of all. If winning more on a short timeframe is all you care about then sure, use all the tricks available to get a little higher rating, I don't have any problems with this kind of thinking, it's up to you what you want from your gaming experience, but don't deceive yourself into thinking you are becoming a better player. You don't become a good player by learning a bunch of tricks by heart.

Timing in FAF is incredibly unreliable, I think everyone should understand this by simply playing or watching a few games, there are games where a player is 50 mass at 20min (hi voodoo) but absolutely destroying their opponents and there are games where everyone has +200 mass income in 20min on the same map. So when do you start ecoing? You start ecoing when it is a good decision to do so. You don't remember some rule that you should have some fixed amount of mass income at some point of the game. You adapt to what is happening in the game. This is not single player, the whole point of multiplayer is interaction with other players.

What you do is think about your position. Hey, it's a strategy game after all! Consider how much damage you or your opponent will be able to cause on each other. You estimate your position: if either player isn't able to cause sufficient amount of damage then it's definitely a good time to eco. Same thing with nukes: consider the state of the game, how likely would a nuke be in the current situation? Scouting is not the only way to get information of what your opponent is doing. A lot of it is actually indirect, think what your opponent doesn't have: if you are ahead in eco it is much more important to scout than if you are behind. If your opponent doesn't have a lot of stuff, chances are that he's hiding something.

Like I said it's up to you how you enjoy your game, but if you really want to improve then I suggest learning timings not be your method of doing so.

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 04 Sep 2014, 16:46

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-03T23:37:20+02:00

Well best way how to learn build antinuke is to get nuked in 3 games and in the 4th one you will remember you need antinuke (that's how Ive learnt it) or I should better say, SCOUT if enemy is building a nuke, cause thats what matters.
And reminding to build for example T3 air or something, its not that you have to have air at some point, its about what's going on in game, same with eco. It depends if you wanna do air or not, and ofc if you are forced to build air or not.
And with eco, you wanna go ither spam with minimal eco, or build eco and tech up from the beginning, there is no right time to do that.
To the idea, if someone wanna and will do that...can be, but in my opinion it can't really help.

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 03 Sep 2014, 23:37

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-03T19:42:47+02:00

I think this is good idea, if you fighting and microing it´s very easy to forget build eco,...

about nuke, when oponent has nuke is good chance your anti will be late

and not all players are good like Blodier and skill level has boundary so I dont think this will stop increasing skill level

Statistics: Posted by ZeRen — 03 Sep 2014, 19:42

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-03T19:37:27+02:00

if you play certain turtlemaps like water of isis at some points nuke defenses just become a must.
Not only is it not possible to scout wether he is building a nuke once t3 naval is reached but the buildtime for the missile and the antimissile is actually pretty similar (antimissile has 80% buildtime) which means that against unassisted nuke only a little more than 1 minute of not scouting it means you wont have a defense against it.
the more you assist the nuke (for example next to air factory) the harder it becomes for the defender.
on top of that the guy taking the initiative (building nuke,antinuke) will be less likely to stall (stall causes a complete stop of building for antinukes)

Statistics: Posted by Lame — 03 Sep 2014, 19:37

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-03T19:15:35+02:00

partytime wrote:
Building a nuke defense because it is minute 20 is not offensive ... unless you mean insulting . I think Blodir means you should build stuff like that in reaction to a real threat. I think he also means is that if you rely on timings etc you will only reach a certain skill level, to transcend that you need to constantly watch what is really happening and respond to that. Having the timer might actually make your gameplay worse in the long run because the skills you need won't develop.

Having a reminder to check if they have a nuke is not a bad idea though.

You haven't played much with the people I play with. Nuke rushing at 20:00 is a great way to end the game. Maybe once I get to your level it won't be.

In any case, it sounds like it depends on how you use it. You're saying the reminder should be, "Check if they have a nuke." That's fine. The point is not that the mod forces you to be brainless and rely on it to give you a build order. The point is that it's customizable and you can use it however you want. Sounds like we're in accordance.

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 03 Sep 2014, 19:15

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-03T05:10:47+02:00

codepants wrote:
Isn't responding to your opponents actions being defensive and being the first to act being offensive?

Building a nuke defense because it is minute 20 is not offensive ... unless you mean insulting . I think Blodir means you should build stuff like that in reaction to a real threat. I think he also means is that if you rely on timings etc you will only reach a certain skill level, to transcend that you need to constantly watch what is really happening and respond to that. Having the timer might actually make your gameplay worse in the long run because the skills you need won't develop.

Having a reminder to check if they have a nuke is not a bad idea though.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 03 Sep 2014, 05:10

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-03T02:57:56+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
Moved the thread to suggestions subforum.

The contributor forum is reserved to actually contribute (code) to FAF, not suggesting new features.

Sure, thanks Ze. Apologies for the misplacement -- still figuring things out.

Blodir wrote:
Playing like this will only degrade your gameplay even further. Don't rely on timings in FA, instead respond to your opponents actions.

Maybe. I think it depends on how you take the reminders. If you take them as a brainless robot telling you what to do, then sure. But for learning purposes -- for those of us who have difficulty with multitasking the 5, 10, 20+ things that happen in this game at any given time, maybe it will help it settle into the rhythm of "oh, I should think about doing this."

Not, "I should do it right now or else." Just, "I should think about doing this."

A perhaps off-topic thought: Isn't responding to your opponents actions being defensive and being the first to act being offensive?

-

So it seems 3/4 people like this idea. I'll start digging through code and figuring out what this takes at some point, but any pointers/assistance appreciated (this is now the suggestions thread, after all).

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 03 Sep 2014, 02:57

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-02T16:27:33+02:00

This is a flippin incredible idea, so long as it's kept simple enough to not become something a player relies on. Think of it as training wheels; the more times the buzzer goes off to remind you it's about time to build and anti-nuke, or upgrade to T3, or do a scout sweep, the more likely you are to remember it in games without the mod.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 02 Sep 2014, 16:27

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-02T14:18:56+02:00

Playing like this will only degrade your gameplay even further. Don't rely on timings in FA, instead respond to your opponents actions.

Statistics: Posted by Blodir — 02 Sep 2014, 14:18

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-02T13:22:11+02:00

Moved the thread to suggestions subforum.

The contributor forum is reserved to actually contribute (code) to FAF, not suggesting new features.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 02 Sep 2014, 13:22

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-02T12:03:23+02:00

partytime wrote:
Yeah I've wanted something like this. Just a buzzer I could set to remind me in a minutes time, so I can change build queues, etc. I would also like an audio reminder at intervals when I have idle facs/engineers and the ability to turn this off completely ingame / or turn off just for a factory.

This might help, a timer which you could set in-game to do something would be nice. Generic timers are almost impossible to do as they differ too much from map to map and game to game.

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 02 Sep 2014, 12:03

Re: Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-02T08:44:29+02:00

Yeah I've wanted something like this. Just a buzzer I could set to remind me in a minutes time, so I can change build queues, etc. I would also like an audio reminder at intervals when I have idle facs/engineers and the ability to turn this off completely ingame / or turn off just for a factory.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 02 Sep 2014, 08:44

Proposal: FAF "Alarm Clock"

2014-09-02T06:42:00+02:00

I've had this idea for a while now and I'm wondering what it would take to get it started. It could be that it's completely out of my league, it could be fairly easy. I have limited experience modding games, but at the least, I thought I'd put it out there and see what people thought/if somebody wanted to guide me or take it and run with it themselves.

As we all know there's a lot going on in FAF at any given point and it can be hard to remember to do certain tasks, such as upgrading mexes or building an anti-nuke. FAF Alarm Clock (FAFAC, I guess) would remedy this by sending you alerts at pre-set time marks in the game. For instance, you could have it message you at 20:00 reminding you to build an antinuke. It would be up to the player to pay attention to them and act on them: it's beyond the scope of the idea to continue to message you if you do not build an antinuke (or whatever). That seems much harder -- though I could be wrong.

Ideally it would come with different profiles and even be customizable in-game; for instance, you could have an "eco" FAFAC setting that reminds you to upgrade your mexes sooner, or you could add a reminder to upgrade your air factory at 10:00 if you didn't realize you'd be building an air factory when the game started.

Build I foresee:
- Interface (alternatively, we just have players create a text file with the messages the want and they times they want them, though without an interface in-game customization would be impossible)
- The timer itself (relies on game time, just have to trigger the message)
- The chat function (should be able to copy this from the ACU upgrade notification mod)

Problems I foresee:
- Having FAFAC be specific to each player (though I haven't dug through the ACU upgrade notification mod; this could be as simple as setting a number to a player's ID).
- Using FAFAC as a mod when only one player is using it.

Whether or not this would be a "training" mod (eg if it would be allowed in ranked play, how it would be handled by the community) I leave up to the higher-ups and/or the community.

Thoughts? Worth pursuing? Or is forgetting to build an antinuke reminder enough?

Statistics: Posted by codepants — 02 Sep 2014, 06:42