Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-08-01T08:35:22+02:00

im a cybran player, and I enjoy the roll off times being different.
we get plenty of other toys to compensate

balance talks really make me rage, I don't want balance, I want diversity.
don't like how one faction plays? try another!
if every unit performs exactly the same, you've just created Planetary Annihilation... which blows.

Statistics: Posted by FireMessiah — 01 Aug 2014, 08:35

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-08-01T06:58:20+02:00

It hasn't been done yet, so if he can do it, obviously he doesn't want to. Probably because it's not actually important. I mean, seriously... "difficult to convert high level RTS players from other games, or have them take competitive FA seriously, when such fundamental imbalances in the economies exist."? Please introduce me to a competitive RTS player who was getting into SupCom and then was like, "Whoa, look at these rolloff times, they're a whole second apart! You expect me to play a game where I can't even go bomber first with one of the factions? I'm out."

I have a hard time believing that conversation has ever happened.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 01 Aug 2014, 06:58

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-08-01T05:56:59+02:00

Wait... isn't ZEP in professional animation? If he can't do it surely his co-workers can.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 01 Aug 2014, 05:56

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-08-01T05:56:24+02:00

I have a friend who is a professional animator ... he could take a look. Who knows where the files to look at are?

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 01 Aug 2014, 05:56

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-08-01T02:49:44+02:00

well, we could make a new model for both Cybran, and UEF air Factories!

Just Kidding

Statistics: Posted by Gerfand — 01 Aug 2014, 02:49

Re: Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all f

2014-07-31T23:37:01+02:00

VoiceofReason wrote:
Decrease the required build time for the engineer so that, by time it is accessible is the same time as others get their engineers from air factories.

so all cyb engies will loose all reclaim fights?
and also land facs and navy facs will produce those same engies faster?

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 31 Jul 2014, 23:37

Re: Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all f

2014-07-31T23:07:27+02:00

So if we cant do it because of an animation, and that's the roadblock. Lets build another path;

Decrease the required build time for the engineer so that, by time it is accessible is the same time as others get their engineers from air factories.

Statistics: Posted by VoiceofReason — 31 Jul 2014, 23:07

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-07-31T21:58:27+02:00

We wanted to address this in the last balancepatch. I actually wanted to swap sera/aeon and cybran/uef rolloff time instead of making them all equal (faction deversity..), giving cybran and uef a little early game advantage (in place of the additional disadvtange now, or equal numbers) on watermaps over the other factions that they can use without doubt. It would've need some look into if that advantage won't also shift the power too much into the favor of cyb/uef on land maps, but i think it would've been rather unlikley, and still allows to fall back to equal numbers if it turned out to be true.

Unfortunatly the rolloff time (except sera, which we nerfed slightly to decrease the difference at least, if we couldn't do anything else) is bound to the animation, and no one of us was able to do animations, and no one else could be found who would do it for us, so we couldn't change it.

But this was along with uef bomber buff, and a possible jester change (that didn't make it as it couldn't be proven usefull from testing, more testing might have shown more about if its a good or bad idea) the key concept to solve the water map problem a little.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 31 Jul 2014, 21:58

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-07-31T21:20:32+02:00

gnatinator wrote:
It's a big deal because everything in this game is balanced around mass, energy and build power.

Because of this quirk in the gameplay, other factions cannot go air for a first factory without being automatically disadvantaged to a great degree because economies snowball in this game.

Yes the trifecta and if everybody just eco'ed and didn't attack one another this maybe a problem but that isn't the case. Yes sera is strong on some maps but it isn't because of the roll off time. And yes sera first bomber can be strong but once again it isn't because of the roll off time.

I agree with you that it should be fixed if possible but I don't see it as of huge game breaking importance.

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 31 Jul 2014, 21:20

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-07-31T20:23:34+02:00

I think that's more a map imbalance than anything else, ZLO.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 31 Jul 2014, 20:23

Re: Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all f

2014-07-31T20:03:08+02:00

i just played shit ton of games where air 1rst -> bomber 1rst - wins (ofc 1rst bomber was from sera)

but i do not know what should be done, cybran penalty feels bit unfair, cause it all adds penalty for them for making air 1rst on maps like 4 corners (it is a ladder map now), and other maps where usually balance team tryes to shift balance away from aeon and sera

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 31 Jul 2014, 20:03

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-07-31T19:56:53+02:00

It's a big deal because everything in this game is balanced around mass, energy and build power.

Because of this quirk in the gameplay, other factions cannot go air for a first factory without being automatically disadvantaged to a great degree because economies snowball in this game.

I realize most new players aren't going to know this is going on when they randomly pick their faction and go air first, but it's not a good way to balance... And it's really difficult to convert high level RTS players from other games, or have them take competitive FA seriously, when such fundamental imbalances in the economies exist.

Statistics: Posted by gnatinator — 31 Jul 2014, 19:56

Re: Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all f

2014-07-31T19:19:46+02:00

And? You make it sound as if this is some huge benefit. Is Seraphim the strongest faction right now? Is Cybran the weakest?

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 31 Jul 2014, 19:19

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-07-31T16:45:31+02:00

Not sure why BRNKoINSANITY decided to pro-actively lock the previous thread here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8271

As of the latest live patch, the rolloff times for Air Factories have not been addressed. See this for yourself in unit test mode (Method: Queue 10 engineers and unpause. New players: Use this by turning on cheat mode and using Alt-F2).

Engineer rolloff time on the Air Factory is still sloped unequally in this order: Seraphim, Aeon, UEF, Cybran.

Statistics: Posted by gnatinator — 31 Jul 2014, 16:45

Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

2014-07-31T06:57:16+02:00

This is an outdated video. The roll-off times have been balanced significantly in the last couple of patches. Try them out for yourself!

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 31 Jul 2014, 06:57