Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2014-07-17T09:42:30+02:00 /feed.php?f=42&t=7436 2014-07-17T09:42:30+02:00 2014-07-17T09:42:30+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77260#p77260 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]> http://www.faforever.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=5690&hilit=RoLa&start=290#p60490

The only question is actually : Is that making the game better or more fun?
Only testers that try to adapt can tell.

I didn't follow the discussion, but after 5 patchs periods on the same subject, I can safely say that only one of these two things can happens:
- We want to make changes to T3 air and it has to be drastic.
- We leave T3 air as it is and it will not be brought in another patch ever, because nobody is ready or willing to commit to changes and these discussions are getting old (seriously, 30 pages of threads in each patch period).

Making slight changes won't work. It's either really good as it is or totally broken. Think supcom to FA changes when I'm talking of drastic changes.

It's up to you to see if about 200 pages of forums discussions is a good argument for saying that people really want changes on that area.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 17 Jul 2014, 09:42

]]> 2014-07-16T22:56:07+02:00 2014-07-16T22:56:07+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77244#p77244 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
Replace fuel with ammo.
Aircraft can shoot only, when more than a certain amount of time left. When it shoots, amount of time is subtracted.
ASFs can only do 1.5x their health as max damage when ammo full.
Interceptors can do much more, because higher tier weapons waste energy for a bigger blast.
Aircraft can fly at full speed all the time no matter how long it's patrolling but has to return to base or other staging facility after a battle to refuel ammo or it generates it by itself albeit very slowly.
You have to pick your fights more carefully.
Micromanaging your aircraft becomes more important.
Staging becomes actually useful.
Yes, this also counts for bombers. This also counts for gunships.
Air domination isn't "instawin" anymore because they will have to return after some time, giving you time to reclaim and rebuild.
Still doesnt safe you against snipes.
ASF fights don't become less CPU taxing but end faster.
If someone loses the fight he can actually retreat if ASFs survive long enough.
Mix interceptors with ASFs to waste enemy shots and extra damage, Interceptors are now useful even late in the game.
Also makes a comeback easier, if you mix Interceptors in it.
This would also make transports not get slower, oh how I hate to replace those once fuel's empty.

What's not to like?

Statistics: Posted by Vastor — 16 Jul 2014, 22:56

]]> 2014-07-16T14:47:56+02:00 2014-07-16T14:47:56+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77228#p77228 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]> AirMaintainanceTest which introduces a significant mass and energy cost for refueling and I reduced the production cost of aircraft. My intention was to make it less worth of just geting more and more ASF ( or t3 bombers or restorers, but to just get what is needed to defend or attack and to punish players spamming just ASF and T3 Bombers.

I wanted first to implement it as a continues energy/mass drain, but i couldn't figure it out, so i modified the landing pads.
viewtopic.php?f=58&t=5690&p=61995&hilit=maintainance+mod#p61951

The basic idea is simple. You need a huge eco to afford refueling/maintaince a huge air force, but building small air forces that raid the enemy more often could make game more interesting. In combination with a change of veterancy select/deselct and sort aircraft by veterancy would round that thing up, so you keep your little force of elite air craft.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 16 Jul 2014, 14:47

]]> 2014-07-16T12:01:35+02:00 2014-07-16T12:01:35+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77225#p77225 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
Aurion wrote:
I think that actually removes a lot of tactical options (pick your fight and also do you fight over enemy AA tactics).


what air tactic do yo have on mind? Today what we can do with air is only make bigger swarm, try to get fight on your teritory (reclaim and flak/sam) and get enemy to back.. thats all what we can get on air fight

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 16 Jul 2014, 12:01

]]> 2014-07-16T09:09:32+02:00 2014-07-16T09:09:32+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77220#p77220 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
Ithilis_Quo wrote:
new threat but it rape actual ASF gamaplay:

give all air units "buble" where dont go other air units(as is on experimental jet), and give asf 0,5 aoe dmg.. then would mean couple of air units would not make couple but line, and when make small couple then die extremly fast in group by aoe dmg...
____________
REASULT

We would not see so many swarm as now, would have less lag in lategame, Air would be more logic when player would care more about how and where to use air and not send all to one place. And maybe.. we would see some tactic on use air :D as go with beith and then get them from back in groupe...


I think that actually removes a lot of tactical options (pick your fight and also do you fight over enemy AA tactics).

Statistics: Posted by Aurion — 16 Jul 2014, 09:09

]]> 2014-07-16T02:57:54+02:00 2014-07-16T02:57:54+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77210#p77210 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
give all air units "buble" where dont go other air units(as is on experimental jet), and give asf 0,5 aoe dmg.. then would mean couple of air units would not make couple but line, and when make small couple then die extremly fast in group by aoe dmg...
____________
REASULT

We would not see so many swarm as now, would have less lag in lategame, Air would be more logic when player would care more about how and where to use air and not send all to one place. And maybe.. we would see some tactic on use air :D as go with beith and then get them from back in groupe...

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 16 Jul 2014, 02:57

]]> 2014-07-16T00:31:54+02:00 2014-07-16T00:31:54+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77206#p77206 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
dstojkov wrote:
first cool feature could be to limit one type of unit unlike this is now a global one( limit 500 units with something like 100 ASF max)


No

Statistics: Posted by E8400-CV — 16 Jul 2014, 00:31

]]> 2014-07-15T22:22:17+02:00 2014-07-15T22:22:17+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77201#p77201 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
Marko Box wrote:
Crotalus is doing some thinkering with asf trails. Basicly for some reason they use cpu and not gpu (try turning off every graphic seting and you will still see trails).
There was also something else he mentioned but i forgot, contact him he will explain it to you better than me.


I remember that Crotalus found out that it has something to do with the retargetting at every command and TargetCheckInterval
of the ASF Weapons.

I suggested to introduce a dynamic factor to adjust TargetCheckInterval.

Statistics: Posted by RoLa — 15 Jul 2014, 22:22

]]> 2014-07-15T21:47:26+02:00 2014-07-15T21:47:26+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77200#p77200 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
What is CPU intensive is the projectile computations, and the big number of ASF you can interact at a single time.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 15 Jul 2014, 21:47

]]> 2014-07-15T21:11:26+02:00 2014-07-15T21:11:26+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=77199#p77199 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
second cool feature could be to ""optimize" the command click. Like you already mentioned it what is computing intensive is the path finding. One simple way get better result would be to add way point to a command if the final point is far away slpit it in 2 point one not that far from the unit and the second one to the wished point. A picture could be more expressive as my english sucks:


A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ C

to


A ----------B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------C

Statistics: Posted by dstojkov — 15 Jul 2014, 21:11

]]> 2014-05-25T00:40:01+02:00 2014-05-25T00:40:01+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=73809#p73809 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]> There was also something else he mentioned but i forgot, contact him he will explain it to you better than me.

Statistics: Posted by Marko Box — 25 May 2014, 00:40

]]> 2014-05-21T11:27:24+02:00 2014-05-21T11:27:24+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=73486#p73486 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]> Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 21 May 2014, 11:27

]]> 2014-05-21T03:02:23+02:00 2014-05-21T03:02:23+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=73464#p73464 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
Microing is an intergral part of the game. It's not a 4 X afterall...


Though I myself has given up on air micro... I just use attack commands... and if I'm lucky my oponent does not micro his air either :D

Statistics: Posted by Lionhardt — 21 May 2014, 03:02

]]> 2014-05-21T02:30:56+02:00 2014-05-21T02:30:56+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=73463#p73463 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
2216855-The_Mak.fafreplay
About 7 minutes long, skip first 3 minutes for setup.

Same setup as before:

I setup Green’s 750 Aeon ASFs in a triangle patrol order.
I then move in Blue’s 750 Aeon ASF to intercept Green and try to do some micro.

The sim dives to -10,

I quickly just delete the units to spare the slide show.

The next attack is similar, Green’s 750 ASF in a triangle patrol order.
This time I move Blue’s 750 ASF into position and just issue an attack order move.
No other commands issued to the aircraft.

The sim speed stays right at 0 through the entire fight.
If you play the replay at +10, it will drop to -10 for the first engagement. For the second engagement it will play at 0 or +1 speed.

If you watch the replay at regular speed (0), it will drop to -10 for the first engagement. For the second engagement it will remain at 0.


I still stand behind my statement. The game is designed around big battles and issuing strategic level commands. When you try to micro manage too much you are just fighting the mechanics of the game engine that perform the simulation and unit control. This results in the sim slow downs. If we can somehow make aircraft unselectable after we have issued an order for 5 game ticks or so we can maybe cut down on the sim slow downs due to the constant recalculating from issuing new orders.

Statistics: Posted by The Mak — 21 May 2014, 02:30

]]> 2014-05-20T21:49:02+02:00 2014-05-20T21:49:02+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=7436&p=73440#p73440 <![CDATA[Re: ASFs, lag, What can be done...]]>
E8400-CV wrote:
Lol no; it will remove any sense of reality from the game.


...okay that's remotely a problem because?

(Assuming you are talking about slower ASFs) how in the world does slower air planes break reality more than experimentals or just building in general?
(Assuming you are talking about moblie T3 AA) also an actual thing so reality is fine.

Statistics: Posted by errorblankfield — 20 May 2014, 21:49

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