Forged Alliance Forever

Re: New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-31T06:08:45+02:00

Mycen wrote:
Well sure it would have to be balanced, but I don't think that sera T3 subhunters not being effective enough is going to convince anyone!

Really though, I don't think it would make the Tempest that overwhelming....If it's the former, I doubt any extra mobile shields the Tempest could build would prevent a defeat. If the latter, then the Tempest is a lone sitting duck.

Realistically, the Aeon player would have to secure a coastline before they started building units from their Tempests,...

And another thought about your ideas: The anti-shipping mine - ALL water units have water vision, so it would be detectable by everything it can target. If it can't move at all, then it would be, I think, a little bit too easy to simply shoot from a distance. It should either be cloaked and stealthed (which I don't really like) or be able to move slowly.

Your analysis on the Tempest hover combo is accurate. Out of interest, I had created a mod which did exactly this. I think it would be in the GPG vault. But never had any great opportunities to game test this.

As for the mine. You are correct, in that all naval units have underwater vision. Attack Submarines 32, Frigates 16, Destroyers 45, Cruisers 60, Carriers 36 and Battleships 50. I hadn't actually realised that it was as large as it is. That could be a problem.

I would imagine the mine would not be a projectile. So it would not operate on collision physics. Rather it would be a static structure, so that when detected it will be marked on the map, with its own strategic icon. It would have a suicide weapon and attack radius, or alternatively detonate on command. The blast radius should be slightly larger than its attack radius. Also, the suicide weapon should occur on death. So killing it would cause detonation.

I don't especially like the idea of the mine being stealthed and cloaked. Because there are no naval vessels with omni sensors. People would need to start using Spy Planes with their fleets. I do think it should be a static structure, so that when it is detected it is marked on the map.

I'd recommend the following stats:
Inner ring damage: 4000 Inner ring radius: 20
Outer ring damage: 600 Outer ring radius: 40
Attack radius: 16
Target Hover = False, Target Surface = True, Target Submerged = True, Target Sebed = False.
Special abilities: Manual Detonate, Death weapon.
Mass Cost: 320 Energy Cost: 6200 Build Time: 40

Of course the minelayer submarine would have extra utility. Because it is a stealthed engineering unit with build capacity (albeit a very limited build pallete). It can repair ships, assist construction and reclaim naval wrecks.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 31 Jul 2013, 06:08

Re: New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-30T21:07:02+02:00

Firewall wrote:
Of course that would come with balancing issues. Imagine a Tempest going up against Seraphim Submarines, when it is able to spam out Assylums to protect itself Having all of that capability in the one vessel would make it overpowered.

Going with the Aeon theme of extreme specialisation. An amphibious support vessel should have the build capacity to serve as an off shore land factory. As well as radar to provide intel support. But it should be virtually usless for anything else. Which would mean no big cannon to blow shit up with. Not only would a hovercraft building tempest be able to spam a land force at a "rate of knots". But it would also support the action with massive artillery fire. The result would be completely overwhelming.

Well sure it would have to be balanced, but I don't think that sera T3 subhunters not being effective enough is going to convince anyone!

Really though, I don't think it would make the Tempest that overwhelming. It has to sit still on the surface when building, so it is going to be very vulnerable. Looking at your versus Seraphim scenario as an example, the Yathsous might not like it pooping out mobile shields, but the Cruisers will love it sitting still to get hammered by cruise missiles. And while the Tempest is stationary to build hover units, what is the rest of your navy doing? Sitting around with it, or maneuvering? If it's the former, I doubt any extra mobile shields the Tempest could build would prevent a defeat. If the latter, then the Tempest is a lone sitting duck.

Realistically, the Aeon player would have to secure a coastline before they started building units from their Tempests, otherwise it's just too easy to attack them. They have decent damage output, but they're huge targets that must sit stationary to build. They're not going to be "overwhelming" without a full navy backing them up, at which point you would be able to "support the action with massive artillery fire" already anyway - meaning the Tempest doesn't change the equation all that much. I don't think it would imbalance much of anything, really.

And another thought about your ideas: The anti-shipping mine - ALL water units have water vision, so it would be detectable by everything it can target. If it can't move at all, then it would be, I think, a little bit too easy to simply shoot from a distance. It should either be cloaked and stealthed (which I don't really like) or be able to move slowly.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 30 Jul 2013, 21:07

Re: New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-30T18:53:27+02:00

Mycen wrote:
I thought that there was some discussion about making the Tempest able to build hovering units as well as naval units. Since it is already a mobile factory and mobile factories are normally T4s, I think this would be better than making a whole new unit at T3 for that purpose.

Of course that would come with balancing issues. Imagine a Tempest going up against Seraphim Submarines, when it is able to spam out Assylums to protect itself Having all of that capability in the one vessel would make it overpowered.

Going with the Aeon theme of extreme specialisation. An amphibious support vessel should have the build capacity to serve as an off shore land factory. As well as radar to provide intel support. But it should be virtually usless for anything else. Which would mean no big cannon to blow shit up with. Not only would a hovercraft building tempest be able to spam a land force at a "rate of knots". But it would also support the action with massive artillery fire. The result would be completely overwhelming.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 30 Jul 2013, 18:53

Re: New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-30T18:05:15+02:00

I thought that there was some discussion about making the Tempest able to build hovering units as well as naval units. Since it is already a mobile factory and mobile factories are normally T4s, I think this would be better than making a whole new unit at T3 for that purpose.

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 30 Jul 2013, 18:05

Re: New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-30T15:03:10+02:00

I believe someone managed it on one of the mods, either working into BO or for 4DC.
Although, I wouldnt mind a navy mod.

Statistics: Posted by ggstack — 30 Jul 2013, 15:03

Re: New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-30T09:37:07+02:00

Golol wrote:
about the sera thing: i think after many discussions over a long time it turned out that naval transports are kind of impossible. i know someone tried something with dronew being loaded into a transport that carry units but i think it didnt work out.

Yea, I'm familiar with the issue. Thats why I though a hovering transport might work better. In this case, the transport itself would be an amphibious unit and would simply move onto land before unloading. As yet this is still untested.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 30 Jul 2013, 09:37

Re: New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-30T09:28:43+02:00

about the sera thing: i think after many discussions over a long time it turned out that naval transports are kind of impossible. i know someone tried something with dronew being loaded into a transport that carry units but i think it didnt work out.

Statistics: Posted by Golol — 30 Jul 2013, 09:28

New Unit Concepts to make Naval Battles Awesome

2013-07-30T09:04:36+02:00

Hi there,

I just wanted to throw this out there. Here are some ideas for units that would make naval battles awesome.

UEF - T2 Mini Carrier.
A T2 naval vessel. It repairs, builds and launches aircraft. Has capacity to store 20 aircraft. It is able to build T1 and T2 aircraft. Including: Scouts, Interceptors, Torpeedo Bombers and Fighter Bombers. It has AA missiles and flak cannons for self defence.

Cybran - T2 Minelayer Submarine.
A T2 submarine. It has sonar stealth and can build anti-shipping mines. It has minor repair and reclaim capability. It is slow moving and has minor torpeedo capability.

Cybran - Anti-Shipping Mine.
This is a stealthed suicide structure. It is immobile and constructed by the T2 minelayer submarine. It detonates with a moderate AOE blast radius. It can be detected by underwater vision or omni-sensors. It can attack surface or submerged units. It will not attack hovercraft or seabed units. It can be targeted by depth, charges and torpeedos. It can also be reclaimed. It explodes on death, and can be manually detonated.

Aeon - T3 Mothership.
This is a T3 amphibious support vessel. It is equipped with an impressive radar system and is able to build Aeon hovering land units on water. Including the Scout, Aurora, Blaze, Assylum, Ascendant (T2 flak) and Absolver. As well as also constructing T1, T2 and T3 engineers.

Seraphim - T3 Hovering Transport.
This is a hover unit, built at a T3 naval factory. It functions in the same manner as an air transport, except that it is a hover unit. As such it is not targeted by AA, but is able to move on land and sea. It has a higer movement speed than most land units. But is slower then air transports. It has more HP, a personal shield and beam weapons. It can be used to ferry units to land, or to quickly deploy hovercraft on water.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 30 Jul 2013, 09:04