Forged Alliance Forever

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T20:39:04+02:00

the problem with these threads is their approach. engie mod may not be the best solution for a brand new game but it is the best solution for FAF because it otherwise affects very little.

your ideas aren't bad they just wouldn't work for FAF because they would alienate the community

Statistics: Posted by Veta — 06 May 2013, 20:39

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T20:13:26+02:00

About Idea 2: that is actually implemented in the Total Veterancy Mod. if you have factory that is making units the entire game, it becomes super OP and produces strats or bricks in 1 or 2 seconds. And let's not mention commander veterancy in that mod (which also affects commanders buildrate- ever wanted to make a Mavor in under a minute?).

Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 06 May 2013, 20:13

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-07T00:18:51+02:00

WHY ENGY MOD?

because

but yes this removes the old way. which gives pathfinding problems and slows the game etc. engy mod doesnt remove just gives an alternative.

edit1:

well those who are against engymod want to play the 'original' for those i would made the 'classic fa' as a mod

and this 'patch' to fix lag, slowdown, pathfinding, tech1 engyspam/alternate would be the faf main mod.

but here must be faf main mod only and no 'classic' so the answer is engymod.(yes engymod is best for these circumstances)

edit2: its ok to leave this here for explaining others why engymod or just delete.

Statistics: Posted by qai — 06 May 2013, 19:19

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:58:35+02:00

Zock wrote:
If you could make a new game with this system, its no problem to implement it. You can balance the game around it. Implement such a system in an already balanced game is a whole other thing.

And i'm not taking this as personal atack at all (don't know where u get the idea?!), i listened to all concerns and alternatives people provided to engymod, and this one is one that could actually work, so its already far ahead of most others. I'm just telling you my concerns that it won't be as easy to do as you seem to think, not at all that easy. If you don't think so, i can only wish you once again good luck with the idea!

you can pity me then when it is done and working, not before.

we went offtopic.
isntead of this:(its old i know)

Changes:
- assisting t1 factories with t1 engineers is slightly nerfed
- otherwise t1 gameplay is unchanged
- very significant buffs to the build rate of the t2 engineer (160%) and factory (232%)
- huge buffs to the build rate of the t3 engineer (380%) and land factory (670%)
- nerfs to the build times of t1 (127%), t2 (137%) and t3 (218%)units.

just change factory buildrate say tech1 to 500 so a tech1 engineer with 5buildpower wont increase enough to be worth assisting, so you build more factories (its like when you try to assist a nuke launcher)(no change to engineer or buildings buildtime)
with this we have to change build time of factory units and thats it. (dont even need experience for factory thing)

go firstpage 'idea 3'

Statistics: Posted by qai — 06 May 2013, 18:58

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:41:22+02:00

qai wrote:
Zock wrote:Oh, the engymod had only one change at start too...the others were needed over time not to break anything. Its always very simple in the first concept, when you didn't struggle about all the problems balancing includes yet.

Now if i imagine how much you can break with factory veterancy...you'd propably need a lot more changes then engymod. Maybe i'm wrong, but i pity the guy who would make this mod, thinking that rien and me spent now over 4 month doing engymod, and believing that your idea would be much more balancing work then it.

it is possible, but this wasnt broken in supcom2 which is a sequel to this game(similar/same units just less) and the changes where resource gathering and research which we dont touch/have.

you take this as an attack to your person(in reality its not) but try to see trough that.

and i wouldnt even think about pitying the guy/s who spent 4 months on something when someone got an other/better idea.

If you could make a new game with this system, its no problem to implement it. You can balance the game around it. Implement such a system in an already balanced game is a whole other thing.

And i'm not taking this as personal atack at all (don't know where u get the idea?!), i listened to all concerns and alternatives people provided to engymod, and this one is one that could actually work, so its already far ahead of most others. I'm just telling you my concerns that it won't be as easy to do as you seem to think, not at all that easy. If you don't think so, i can only wish you once again good luck with the idea!

you can pity me then when it is done and working, not before.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 06 May 2013, 18:41

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod killer

2013-05-06T18:22:33+02:00

Pierto wrote:
Idea 2 doesn't really stroke with the definition of veterancy, which is the accumulated amount of combat experience of a certain unit. A factory doesn't 'fight', so it makes no sense to give it veterancy.

what if i call it "experience based optimization"?

Statistics: Posted by rootbeer23 — 06 May 2013, 18:22

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:28:51+02:00

Zock wrote:
Oh, the engymod had only one change at start too...the others were needed over time not to break anything. Its always very simple in the first concept, when you didn't struggle about all the problems balancing includes yet.

Now if i imagine how much you can break with factory veterancy...you'd propably need a lot more changes then engymod. Maybe i'm wrong, but i pity the guy who would make this mod, thinking that rien and me spent now over 4 month doing engymod, and believing that your idea would be much more balancing work then it.

it is possible, but this wasnt broken in supcom2 which is a sequel to this game(similar/same units just less) and the changes where resource gathering and research which we dont touch/have.

you take this as an attack to your person(in reality its not) but try to see trough that.

and i wouldnt even think about pitying the guy/s who spent 4 months on something when someone got an other/better idea.

Statistics: Posted by qai — 06 May 2013, 18:18

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:24:55+02:00

Mycen wrote:
qai wrote:
Factory Veterancy.

In SupCom, you pay resources for increased effectiveness/abilites. With combat units, their effectiveness increase takes the form of veterancy, with the resources you put in being attention required for micro.

What, exactly, is the resource you are putting in to gain this improvement in factory effectiveness?

veterancy is just an "explanation" why it builds faster, also your factories are really "HQ's" you would actually care about loosing them.

Statistics: Posted by qai — 06 May 2013, 18:15

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:14:22+02:00

Oh, the engymod had only one change at start too...the others were needed over time not to break anything. Its always very simple in the first concept, when you didn't struggle about all the problems balancing includes yet.

Now if i imagine how much you can break with factory veterancy...you'd propably need a lot more changes then engymod. Maybe i'm wrong, but i pity the guy who would make this mod, thinking that rien and me spent now over 4 month doing engymod, and believing that your idea would be much more balancing work then it.

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 06 May 2013, 18:14

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:09:34+02:00

qai wrote:
Factory Veterancy.

In SupCom, you pay resources for increased effectiveness/abilites. With combat units, their effectiveness increase takes the form of veterancy, with the resources you put in being attention required for micro.

What, exactly, is the resource you are putting in to gain this improvement in factory effectiveness?

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 06 May 2013, 18:09

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:13:31+02:00

Zock wrote:
second idea, can't say i would really dislike it, but its a much, much bigger gameplay change then engymod. Have fun balancing this (and fight the conserative people), if that's possible at all without changing the half game.

Good luck!

no need to worry because i cant make also wouldnt spend time to make mod.

your opinion is there but where is the reason.

but i cant agree about the scale of the change.
change factory vs change factory, almost all engineering units, add new building, change adjency bonus.

Statistics: Posted by qai — 06 May 2013, 18:06

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:05:21+02:00

It's quite trivial to do if you look how mumble get the "game over" signal.

(contributor section).

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 06 May 2013, 18:05

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod killer

2013-05-06T18:02:42+02:00

Pierto wrote:
Idea 1 reminds me of Supcom 2. So no thanks please.

Idea 2 doesn't really stroke with the definition of veterancy, which is the accumulated amount of combat experience of a certain unit. A factory doesn't 'fight', so it makes no sense to give it veterancy.

I'm sorry, I'm not in on this one.

idea1 answer: yes supcom2. its just suggestion and even if its from supcom2 which u didnt like(like me) doesnt mean its a bad idea. so you wasnt giving a real answer/explanation

idea2 answer: then how can u accept that the same tech2-3 level factory costs less if you have one already and u dont care about losing it because you have a hq in deep ur base which will never be destroyed unless u lost the game already, not to mention changed buildrates for almost all units and many buildings and changes to adjency bonuses

instead minor to change factories (veterancy is just an "explanation" why it builds faster), which in turn if you loose high veterancy factory you actually care about.

Statistics: Posted by qai — 06 May 2013, 18:02

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod Alternative

2013-05-06T18:01:03+02:00

second idea, can't say i would really dislike it, but its a much, much bigger gameplay change then engymod. Have fun balancing this (and fight the conserative people), if that's possible at all without changing the half game.

Good luck!

Statistics: Posted by Zock — 06 May 2013, 18:01

Re: 2 ideas and 1 could be ENGY Mod killer

2013-05-06T17:53:04+02:00

Idea 1 reminds me of Supcom 2. So no thanks please.

Idea 2 doesn't really stroke with the definition of veterancy, which is the accumulated amount of combat experience of a certain unit. A factory doesn't 'fight', so it makes no sense to give it veterancy.

I'm sorry, I'm not in on this one.

Statistics: Posted by Pierto — 06 May 2013, 17:53