Forged Alliance Forever

Re: The Novax

2013-06-23T16:28:06+02:00

I thought Novax had already BEEN buffed since 3603?

Regardless, the only *Buff* is should ever receive is a change to continuous firing with the same overall DPS.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 23 Jun 2013, 16:28

Re: The Novax

2013-06-22T22:55:01+02:00

I give up You guys win. The novax needs a buff because it gets built too little. We most definitely need more indestructible satellites flying over our heads dealing an inordinate amount of damage.

On the serious side of things..... It was a turtle war. I could have EASILY build 14 novax in mass worth of other things by the end of the game. 3 fatboys, one t3 artillary, a decent amount of percies and gunships, and a nuke launcher + 2 nukes would have cost about that much. However, those units would have died, and I would have to keep replacing my army. In the end it probably would have been the same difference. Nukes get shot down by anti -> waste of mass. Percies get wiped out by air -> waste of mass. Gunships are made useless by flak -> waste of mass. There are any number of things that could have happened. Here is what I was trying to say and this is what you need to take away.

Novax do not die!!! If you build 3 and use them to help destroy one base, you use the same 3 AGAIN added to the 3 more you built to attack the next base. As long as you can keep your base safe, you can use novax forever. Does this mean they are an end all unit? Of course not. It does mean however that they are perfect like they are to do the job they were intended for. If you want more direct fire experimentals play as Cybran.

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 22 Jun 2013, 22:55

Re: The Novax

2013-06-22T19:20:34+02:00

You can't use a Phantom game where you built 14 of something as an example in a balance discussion.

14 of anything would be ridiculous.

Heck after 2 shots from 14 T3 arty they wouldn't even have a base left.

And imagine that amount of mass in nukes!

Statistics: Posted by brent_w — 22 Jun 2013, 19:20

Re: The Novax

2013-06-19T19:00:26+02:00

It has been said and it bears repeating.... the nova is mass equivalent to t3 arty and has the advantage of intel and pinpoint accuracy. Also, never build just one. I had a phantom game a few days ago where I built only novax and asf for kicks. I ended up with 14 by the end of the game and it was honestly amazing. Dropping t4 in seconds, full defense of my base without losing any units at all, and the last acu died to a oneshot kill through 3 t2 shields. I was very impressed

Statistics: Posted by BRNKoINSANITY — 19 Jun 2013, 19:00

Re: The Novax

2013-06-17T22:09:40+02:00

I agree with you Gorton.

Everyone pointing out all the things that the Novax can do seem to be forgetting how expensive it is.
You do not build something that expensive unless it's going to help you win the game.
The Novax's essential problem is that it serves a T1 function in the T4 stage of the game.

The other thing everyone seems to forget is that it's *so slow* that it's terrible for even doing what they suggest.
Especially playing on maps the size that they suggest. "Play a bigger map."
By the time the Novax has even gotten around to a handful of mexes on a 40x40+ map the game is probably over.

Statistics: Posted by brent_w — 17 Jun 2013, 22:09

Re: The Novax

2013-06-14T13:04:02+02:00

Firewall wrote:
Gorton wrote:Brink: My main issue is that's it's far to specialised and UEF has a hard time with experimentals as is.
Most of the time it's not worth the cost. Leaving you with the Fatboy (which is good) the mavor (only to be built in extremely specific situations) and the Atlantis which is only really needed to help win Naval, and to be honest it's not even used much even for that.
I don't remember ever seeing someone build an Atlantis purely for carrier duties; I've only seen people build for Naval Dom and then after use it for that purpose.
Whearas the Aeon: GC good, Czar is good, Tempest can be used to build fleets, ruin navy, attack land.. (I will say the tempest is not as good as the others, but it is still more versatile than the Atlantis)
Cybran: ML is good, Mega is good; 1v1 victory on land; it also ruins navies... Soul ripper is good..
You get the picture?
I don't know HOW to fix it. I'm not even suggesting lowering the cost. I'd rather it gain a new feature which fits with the satellite role.

Actually, the Atlantis is a pretty good carrier. Have you ever seen an Atlantis emerge right next ot your base and unload a bunch of broadswords? It can build T3 planes super quick, and sneak under radar to deliver them. You're just not being creative with it. Another neat feature is you can fill the hangar bays with cheap aircraft, and then any more planes you build from it will simply popup from under the ocean. You can also sneak land units, or engineers with it as well. Load T2 land units into the stinger T2 gunship. Then load those gunships into the adlantis. Then send it off the coast land launch your suprise attack They will not know what hit them, and ASF will have no time to respond.

The basic functional utility of a Carrier, it that you can a-mass air units without fear of ASF killing them, Or store your strike aircraft, near the front line, so they can't be hit by ASF. The Atlantis has the added advantage of doing this in secret.

I'm not entirely sure you understood what I said in that post, by the way. I didn't suggest at all that it's a bad unit. I said that it's less versatile than the other experimentals. I did say in multiple posts that this is offset by it's cheap cost, and I have no problems with the Atlantis specifically.
Apart from the thing we all want for all carriers in the game, which is the ability to build on the move.
However, like every carrier, the Atlantis has problems because it's less easy to spam planes with engineer assist. That's usually why I'd build air factories instead.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 14 Jun 2013, 13:04

Re: The Novax

2013-06-14T11:31:54+02:00

Gorton wrote:
Brink: My main issue is that's it's far to specialised and UEF has a hard time with experimentals as is.
Most of the time it's not worth the cost. Leaving you with the Fatboy (which is good) the mavor (only to be built in extremely specific situations) and the Atlantis which is only really needed to help win Naval, and to be honest it's not even used much even for that.
I don't remember ever seeing someone build an Atlantis purely for carrier duties; I've only seen people build for Naval Dom and then after use it for that purpose.
Whearas the Aeon: GC good, Czar is good, Tempest can be used to build fleets, ruin navy, attack land.. (I will say the tempest is not as good as the others, but it is still more versatile than the Atlantis)
Cybran: ML is good, Mega is good; 1v1 victory on land; it also ruins navies... Soul ripper is good..
You get the picture?
I don't know HOW to fix it. I'm not even suggesting lowering the cost. I'd rather it gain a new feature which fits with the satellite role.

Actually, the Atlantis is a pretty good carrier. Have you ever seen an Atlantis emerge right next ot your base and unload a bunch of broadswords? It can build T3 planes super quick, and sneak under radar to deliver them. You're just not being creative with it. Another neat feature is you can fill the hangar bays with cheap aircraft, and then any more planes you build from it will simply popup from under the ocean. You can also sneak land units, or engineers with it as well. Load T2 land units into the stinger T2 gunship. Then load those gunships into the adlantis. Then send it off the coast land launch your suprise attack They will not know what hit them, and ASF will have no time to respond.

The basic functional utility of a Carrier, it that you can a-mass air units without fear of ASF killing them, Or store your strike aircraft, near the front line, so they can't be hit by ASF. The Atlantis has the added advantage of doing this in secret.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 14 Jun 2013, 11:31

Re: The Novax

2013-06-05T19:44:20+02:00

Because every unit should be balanced to be an equally good choice in terms of dps/mass on a 20x20. Didn't you know that?

Statistics: Posted by Mycen — 05 Jun 2013, 19:44

Re: The Novax

2013-06-04T17:50:53+02:00

Gorton wrote:
So I'm going to attack with my spammed fatboy / percies and win. It's simply not feasible (vs people who actually scout) to build the Novax first.

But on the whole, the problem is that it's overly specialised in when you can use it, which is not so in most of the other experimentals that are not gameenders.

Scathis. Paragon.

There will always be a time where building a unit is dumb? What's wrong with that?

Statistics: Posted by Nombringer — 04 Jun 2013, 17:50

Re: The Novax

2013-06-03T17:57:33+02:00

Well, read the topic and we have many good suggestions here;
I would give my opinion:
First suggestion:
From what I read the problem is that the Novax not appearing on the game due to the very high costs of being a unit T4. My suggestion she was demoted to T3 and had half of the reduction in costs and damages.
Currently it costs 28mil and 400mil mass energy 4mil damage every 20s
Reduction would 14mil and 200mil mass energy 2mil damage every 20s
So'd have way to have beautiful gun is earlier and without causing major impacts to the game with regards to balancing, besides occupying its main function is to spy.

Second suggestion:
Another suggestion is to leave it even more T4 it is more efficient option with normal shot as it is now without changing anything and another option for 100segundos focus and shoot 1 single shot with 9mil damage, goodbye puller T3, besides being more efficient a combined attack other units to take down shield, because one shot every 100segundos considerable damage, even defensible for any shield and would not kill one percival, topple more brick Cybran 1, 1 destroyer and damage more. Values can be revised and better balanced, it is more the idea of being able to focus one shot. As we have 2 options snypers Seraphim shooting ...

Statistics: Posted by Neojacques — 03 Jun 2013, 17:57

Re: The Novax

2013-05-06T20:24:35+02:00

Icy wrote:
The Novax is not supposed to compete with assault exps for breaking the front door down, it's an excellent late game intel and harassment option. With the exception of artillery, everything else you can use to achieve the same results will give mass to the enemy if they successfully defend against it.

I'm not saying it should. I just don't like how it is required to be built on larger maps, or late game on smaller ones.
I say that because on smaller maps if I see a Novax going up, (earlier in the game) I know they don't have a fatboy; there's no way they built it before the novax.
So I'm going to attack with my spammed fatboy / percies and win. It's simply not feasible (vs people who actually scout) to build the Novax first. You'll die for your trouble.
As the game goes on, it becomes more useful, as earlier in the game you can achieve the exact same results with strat bomber or tactical missiles.
On larger maps I admit it is useful.

But on the whole, the problem is that it's overly specialised in when you can use it, which is not so in most of the other experimentals that are not gameenders.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 06 May 2013, 20:24

Re: The Novax

2013-05-06T19:48:55+02:00

The Novax is really good as it is now. It's great for killing pretty much anything that doesn't have a shield over it. With current balance, the Novax is superior to every t3 and t4 stationary artillery. You start doing dps earlier than artillery, it never misses the target, and provides constant intel. Having a Novax forces the enemy to build shields everywhere or start watching stuff get zapped from orbit. In the late game scenarios that you would have a Novax, that can force a significant investment in shield gens and extra power that may even exceed the cost of the satellite (a cybran ED5 is a total of 4800 mass).

Novax also shares the primary benefit of heavy artillery, it does not give mass to the enemy if it fails to work. The control center never leaves your base. You can use it like some use a single TML in the early game, force the enemy to go to t2 and build TMD or start watching their base blow up. Once they have invested in a lot of defences against it, just reclaim it and build something else they are less able to stop, like strats or a fatboy. 99% of people are usually unwilling to do the same to those extra defences. Or you could keep it and use a patrol order to have permanent scouting over the enemy bases that doesn't drain large amounts of energy like an Aeon eye. The value of seeing everything they do can often be worth much more than the cost of the Novax.

The Novax is not supposed to compete with assault exps for breaking the front door down, it's an excellent late game intel and harassment option. With the exception of artillery, everything else you can use to achieve the same results will give mass to the enemy if they successfully defend against it.

Statistics: Posted by Icy — 06 May 2013, 19:48

Re: The Novax

2013-05-06T19:39:42+02:00

Gorton wrote:
As I have said multiple times if you read the thread, sinking res into this is only effective* (1) on larger/longer games, whereas the other factions have three *normal* experimentals which can be used on most maps.
Excluding seraphim, but their lack of a fourth experimental is the reason in their case.

(To be honest I kinda want to make a thread about that, as well. Sera should get a fourth experimental : ) )

I don't like how it's only used on certain things. The *gameenders* are very specific in their usage, and that's why they are called gameender in the first place.
And to finish, this :
destroying unshielded targets like outlying Mass extractors and field armies, for harassing any unprotected unit,

Strat bombers? Tactical missiles?
Again, it's MUCH more useful for this.. on larger maps. And only on larger maps.

* (1) Comparatively

Edit because I can't make coherent posts

those quotes are from sup com wikia.

novax is not a gameender just an exp. if thats what u meant.

there are 40 and 80km maps which i dont play. i play mostly 5-10-20.
i think they are acceptable for 10-20km. thats it.
but sure i build nuke, arty or other exp instead. faction difference.

Statistics: Posted by qai — 06 May 2013, 19:39

Re: The Novax

2013-05-06T18:55:12+02:00

qai wrote:
http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/UEF_Experimental_Satellite_System

this tells all

"The weapon is primarily suited for destroying unshielded targets like outlying Mass extractors and field armies, for harassing any unprotected unit, or for secondary base defense. It's very difficult to break through any shielding with just one Novax. "

"The Novax Defense Satellite has low DPS. Its real strength is being both fast and indestructible. You should use it the same way you use a gunship: to destroy and harass any undefended position (undefended in this case means shieldless)."

"Any form of shielding is enough to stop dead a Novax Defense Satellite. While after a while the Novax Defense Satellite WILL break through the shield, but it is just not worth attacking shields. "

it was more expensive to build as now
still expensive for me but got better.
u should build this when you can build 3 or more novax or tech3 arty or gameender

As I have said multiple times if you read the thread, sinking res into this is only effective* (1) on larger/longer games, whereas the other factions have three *normal* experimentals which can be used on most maps.
Excluding seraphim, but their lack of a fourth experimental is the reason in their case.

(To be honest I kinda want to make a thread about that, as well. Sera should get a fourth experimental : ) )

I don't like how it's only used on certain things. The *gameenders* are very specific in their usage, and that's why they are called gameender in the first place.
And to finish, this :

destroying unshielded targets like outlying Mass extractors and field armies, for harassing any unprotected unit,

Strat bombers? Tactical missiles?
Again, it's MUCH more useful for this.. on larger maps. And only on larger maps.

* (1) Comparatively

Edit because I can't make coherent posts

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 06 May 2013, 18:55

Re: The Novax

2013-05-05T12:30:18+02:00

http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/UEF_Experi ... ite_System

this tells all

"The weapon is primarily suited for destroying unshielded targets like outlying Mass extractors and field armies, for harassing any unprotected unit, or for secondary base defense. It's very difficult to break through any shielding with just one Novax. "

"The Novax Defense Satellite has low DPS. Its real strength is being both fast and indestructible. You should use it the same way you use a gunship: to destroy and harass any undefended position (undefended in this case means shieldless)."

"Any form of shielding is enough to stop dead a Novax Defense Satellite. While after a while the Novax Defense Satellite WILL break through the shield, but it is just not worth attacking shields. "

it was more expensive to build as now
still expensive for me but got better.
u should build this when you can build 3 or more novax or tech3 arty or gameender

Statistics: Posted by qai — 05 May 2013, 12:30