Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-13T21:34:18+02:00

Farmsletje wrote:
> Adds firetank
> Gives it the role of tank instead of high aoe damage dealer

Should've atleast given it the acu fire gun of blackops :sadabomination:

tanky AoE damagedealer upclose! also sure feel free to toss in your ideas!

that comander AoE you show would be rather with the experimental bomber ...

not hot enough?

i mean if you guys want further commander upgradeoptions similar to blackops i wouldn´t say no to that as long as they don´t go overboard ...

my personal primary concern is the groundgame ..

Statistics: Posted by MrTBSC — 13 Oct 2019, 21:34

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-13T18:19:48+02:00

> Adds firetank
> Gives it the role of tank instead of high aoe damage dealer

Should've atleast given it the acu fire gun of blackops :sadabomination:

Statistics: Posted by Farmsletje — 13 Oct 2019, 18:19

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-13T17:55:57+02:00

Good points were made criticizing the original suggestions.

I would just say that you'll get the response "faction diversity" for a lot of suggestions for new types of units. E.g. we don't want every faction to have t2 mobile shields, etc. So, many suggestions will overlap in their purpose with current units and therefore be unnecessary, or will impact the faction diversity aspect. I do like the idea of a t2 mobile land repair unit. That is something interesting and unique and could probably be balanced. Maybe give it to a faction without mobile shields?

One thing that always struck me as counter-intuitive since my first days playing, was that there is no improved fighter for t2 air, except for aeon. I could see an argument for giving each faction a t2 swift wind copy, but then does this affect faction diversity too much? Do we buff swift winds a bit then? Then it also gets complicated for balancing every faction and t2/t3 air units. Maybe it's not worth it to add in a new unit there.

So other than that, the only way I can see not having negative faction diversity impacts would be adding on new T4 units that have unique roles, which don't necessarily have a big impact on faction diversity, or might even improve it. E.g. maybe we could give UEF a direct fire t4, something kinda like a ML or Mega. You could possibly make it like a bigger percival that it like tier 3.75 that costs less than a monkeylord and is a bit weaker overall, slower, but with pretty high hp, or dps? Whatever. In any case, there are a lot of potential options for adding balanced t4s for factions that could work.

And for everything besides t4s, I think you'd need some unique unit so you don't just give every faction all the same kinds of options at each tech level, just with slightly tweaked stats. I don't think there is a massive need for any new units but I wouldn't immediately dismiss the idea either because it might add some nice spice to the game in certain areas.

Statistics: Posted by Steel_Panther — 13 Oct 2019, 17:55

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-12T05:42:03+02:00

You've spent more time pre-emptively addressing arguments than you have thinking about the unit ideas themselves. I don't see anything here that hasn't been done before in some mod you bashed in your preamble.

Firetank:
The pillar is already one of the best mass/hp options in the game, so a unit trying to be yet another brawler is either a completely redundant obsidian clone or just a better pillar so much so that the pillar isnt used and youre back at the orginal issue. Also, a meatshield that is slower and as such ends up behind pillars in an attack is never going to be practical.

Mammoth:
You have the Percival, a mammoth is just going be a worse Percival or the new Percival. It doesn't add anything to the game. Trying to attack 2 or 3 different bricks with Hells Fury Riot Guns at a time is a waste of dps.

Yet another UEF air experimental:
I don't see how a t4 Janus makes the game less bland. An air experimental just doesn't suit UEF in any way, and I think GPG knew that.

You might make Mach happy though.

Mech Marine:
I don't see how this isn't a total negative. If you wanted something potentially interesting and that actually fit into the game, you should have suggested the Archer float instead.

Cybran Sniper:
Copy pasted units across factions isn't good in any way, this isn't brewlan. Also, the less range a sniper bot has the more useless it becomes, cloak or no cloak.

Aurora Copypaste:
Better or worse mantis replacement that depends on balance.

Beam:
Better suited for the othuum.

All your aeon suggestions are generally just replacements of the main unit of the tier, there is no practical reasons to make both at any one time outside of low rated players making things overly complicated.

Aura tank:
Shield clone that has been done about a million times already.

Bomb, Lab:
Copy pasting units doesn't solve the issues you stated.

Adding new units to the game will take multiple weeks of ideating. It's not something you can just sit down and make in a forum post.
They have to not just be such a large overlap as to be a replacement, add something interesting like an actual synergy. Not look out of place not only in their own faction but across factions, not ruin balance or cause other units to be balanced to compensate (aura tank will harm ilshy, etc) a new icon will likely be needed. Etc etc etc.

You'll likely need to actually make the unit as well, or at least a dummy unit that shares the stats for testing purposes. So good luck with that part also.

If you don't want to do that, mods already have about 90% of your suggestions, or hopefully nomads took some of my suggestions regarding weapons and the like and you can play with them.

Statistics: Posted by biass — 12 Oct 2019, 05:42

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-11T22:38:02+02:00

the firetank would do damage up close while tanking damage for the pillars or other ranged units .. how does this overlap other than using power for mobile shields ? .. cost wise i might put it up at a similar price of the pillar or slightly higher ...
its higher armor and higher damage upclose could make it also intresting as a dropunit ...

the t3 tank costing the same as the percival would be a more dps effective option were percies tend to overkill ...
it would be more like a brick but not as effective when not facing straight forward considering its sidecannons would not be able to rotate 360° like the mainturret and i think it would be a good fire while moving unit cause then you would have atleast on sidecannon with the mainturret firing on a target ..

the aurora uses a powerfull ballistic projectile with low RoF the sniperbot doesn´t also is not a hoverunit but could be fast enough for dodging shots ..

"They don't fit into the game - they either have no purpose or their purpose overlaps so thoroughly that there's barely any point making one of them, since one will invariably be slightly better, aside from 1 in a million scenarios"

could say the same about monkeylords and megalith or aeon/phim t3 mobile artillery and sniperbots ...
uef/cybran t3 bots and armored bots or Uef demolishers and spearheads ...

Statistics: Posted by MrTBSC — 11 Oct 2019, 22:38

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-11T21:26:45+02:00

I think you should go through your suggested units and clearly define their use and approximate cost

For example let's take

t2 firetank

idea behind this: a slightly slower, shorter ranged but tankier option to the pillar with a bit of AoE that acts as the UEF´s meatshield besides simply using mobile shields should imo not cross over with either the riptide or mongoose as these 2 are the more mobile t2 options with the former in particular being ment for kiting ..

So uh, a slow obsidian with slight aoe? Pillars are very well-rounded units, i'm not sure what this would be effective against.

t3 mammoth or overlordesque tank

for a human faction that is kinda meant to have some familiarity to the new player it just strikes me as odd that the UEF have no assaulttank at t3 (but seraphim for some reason do)
now of course putting this tank in is a bit tough cause with the percival you already have a strong assaultunit and a companion to your fatboy and you have the demolisher as a armysoftener ...

but my idea for this unit would be that it has a main dual railgun for delivering punches and on its sides gatlingstyle weapons .. it should have shorter range than the percival but be tougher or equaly as tough with the difference that once it´s in rage it is capable to attack multiple units or requires to be frontfaced to focus all its firepower on one target ..

So a t3 tank-sized mega..? Can't even think of a reason why this would be used instead of the percy, tbh.

otherwise
a t1 sniperbot:
weaker in hp than aurora but has higher RoF and either same or greater range ..

Why not just make the aurora into this instead of making an entirely new unit?

So, yeah, this needs a serious rethink

They don't fit into the game - they either have no purpose or their purpose overlaps so thoroughly that there's barely any point making one of them, since one will invariably be slightly better, aside from 1 in a million scenarios

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 11 Oct 2019, 21:26

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-11T19:59:01+02:00

FtXCommando wrote:
MrTBSC wrote:straight up no? (i do not care about purists fyi)

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)

sry i don´t and you know it ...

Statistics: Posted by MrTBSC — 11 Oct 2019, 19:59

Re: Unitsuggestions!

2019-10-11T19:55:20+02:00

MrTBSC wrote:
straight up no? (i do not care about purists fyi)

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)

Statistics: Posted by FtXCommando — 11 Oct 2019, 19:55

Unitsuggestions!

2020-02-07T18:11:30+02:00

how long does FAF exist now?
the thing i criticise forged alliance the most for is its lack of intresting units primarily on the ground
and i realy think FAF should consider expanding on that at least where it may make sense
as such units should not be added for the mere sake of diversaty but were it may keep the theme of the factions
... and let´s be honest FAF is already not like vanilla in many aspects and i think a few extraunits would not drastically change the flow of the coregameplay ...

now from many the obvious answer will be ... go play mods or make your own

well i´m not a modder so there is that ...
as for the mods available with unitpacks they are mostly made for the rule of cool than to have a ballanced factionunitpool and contain many units i rather disagree with having ..

the other more valid concern is more stuff that needs to be ballanced, greater learningcurve ... but personaly i rather take that over a mostly imo blant unitpool ... and of course it´s not exactly easy to include the right units for all tiers and factions

of course the community as whole decides and i don´t realy hold any hope that any of this will be included ... as nothing in this regard had been done for years (well except for t3 mobile AA ... yaaaayyyy ... :/)

BUT HEY at least i could try in this regard! right?

now of course i don´t have suggestions that cover all factions equaly as some of the current pools make it difficult to have a unit that doesn´t overlap with a unit in the same tier ..

but here it goes:

UEF:

could definetively use a couple more options imo ..

t2 firetank

idea behind this: a slightly slower, shorter ranged but tankier option to the pillar with a bit of AoE that acts as the UEF´s meatshield besides simply using mobile shields should imo not cross over with either the riptide or mongoose as these 2 are the more mobile t2 options with the former in particular being ment for kiting ..

t3 mammoth or overlordesque tank

for a human faction that is kinda meant to have some familiarity to the new player it just strikes me as odd that the UEF have no assaulttank at t3 (but seraphim for some reason do)
now of course putting this tank in is a bit tough cause with the percival you already have a strong assaultunit and a companion to your fatboy and you have the demolisher as a armysoftener ...

but my idea for this unit would be that it has a main dual railgun for delivering punches and on its sides gatlingstyle weapons .. it should have shorter range than the percival but be tougher or equaly as tough with the difference that once it´s in rage it is capable to attack multiple units or requires to be frontfaced to focus all its firepower on one target ..

tx experimental bomber

i´m gonna be honest ... the UEF still has imo a lacking set of experimentals (along with phim regarding non assault experimentals :/)
one in particular is a pure naval option that doesn´t realy see much use with attacking land
one requiring a stationary building and at best annoys people if not in numbers with its satalite
and one being a SUPER expensive game ender
which leaves just one propper assaultoption (and that is more a bombardoption actualy) ... were the other factions have at least 2 assaultoptions (cybran 3 even) ...

so i say give the UEF a attackbomber however not like the phim tx bomber ..
let it drop like 2 rows of 5 or so strategic level bombs that however cause napalm damage over time ...

t1 mechmarine:

i think it would be kinda intresting to have them be amphibious ... ...

Cybran:

probably have the most well rounded roster but could use one or 2 more options

t3 cloaked sniper:
similar cost to the aeon and phim sniper, has less range maybe a bit more health, is primarily meant as a late hit and run option that decloaks when it fires ..

t1 hovercraft:
basicaly a early mobile burst raider that can´t take as much damage as mantis ..

not realy anthing else that could be added to them ... maybe give the brick a continous beam as mainweapon?

Aeon:

hmmmm quite tough .... at the very least they don´t need any experimentals they are well covered there ...

the only thing i can think of is to give them a alternative to harbs

t3 hovertank:
has a medium to shortrange continuous beam with a wee bit AoE?

otherwise
a t1 sniperbot:
weaker in hp than aurora but has higher RoF and either same or greater range ..

t3 ranged gunship:
basicaly a harder hitting but lightly armored gunship one could mix in with specters ...

phim:

ooooof ... realy realy tough with their brute force and rolecombinationstyle ...
there are 2 primary options i would like to see that i think would go well with the more aggresive bruteforcestyle of this faction

t2 mobile repairaura tank:
helps keeping your t2 bots alive that realy are your primary assault option as this faction gets mobile shield at t3 rather ..
and also would be a option for players who may wanna be rather passive with their commander or invest into other commanderupgrades ..

t2 mobile suicidebomb:
there is a thread of having the beetle be a damage over time weapon ..
i say give that unit to the phim (beetle staying the instand damage + emp variant or low caliber madtank) releasing electronic vortexes like the TX assaultbot ..
helps vs armys or as a way to temporarily keep the opponent from wanting to push through affected terrain ..

and for gods sake give these poor guys t1 labs dang it! .. maybe make them amphibius like the mechmarine, too ..
also how about a t3 gunship? ... like WHY are they the only faction without one ? ... their t2 gunship is too weak to still be viable in t3 and their t3 bombers do not compensate for that lack ...

otherwise it´s just super tough to give them any t1/t2/t3 offensive alternative ..

thoughts?

own ideas that are not too crazy?

straight up no? (i do not care about purists fyi)

may edit OP with new ideas ..

Statistics: Posted by MrTBSC — 11 Oct 2019, 19:51