Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-28T11:22:51+02:00

It seems to me that while player A is sandboxing and preparing for battle, player B will be searching for a ladder game and thinking that this game is deserted.

I'd rather prefer players to be able to learn the game while playing it with other people and having fun.

"Rewarding" for obscure knowledge in this case means that one player will win quickly, the other won't be able to put up much fight and neither will have much fun.

Statistics: Posted by RealityCheck — 28 Aug 2016, 11:22

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-28T08:45:57+02:00

Zoram wrote:
That's the right attitude to encourage if you want even more of a niche game with an ever dwindling player base.
Having hidden treasure chests adds nothing to the game play. Rewarding players for mindlessly sandboxing every map to check for such "features" just chases away people with others things to do with their lives, for no extra benefit.

I wouldn't say that it is a mindless activity. As I am usually attentive enough, all the time, to pick up on these sorts of things. It's called observation skills. I'm only suggesting that might need to sandbox if you're not very good at observing things.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 28 Aug 2016, 08:45

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-27T20:36:52+02:00

Gonna go with Zoram on this one.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 27 Aug 2016, 20:36

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-27T18:41:11+02:00

keyser wrote:
Zoram wrote:
Hawkei wrote:You need to make it your business to know the maps which you are playing on . This means sandboxing them, and exploring them to find all those little things. Do you not think that a more knowledgable player should be rewarded for knowing more about the map?

That's the right attitude to encourage if you want even more of a niche game with an ever dwindling player base.
Having hidden treasure chests adds nothing to the game play. Rewarding players for mindlessly sandboxing every map to check for such "features" just chases away people with others things to do with their lives, for no extra benefit.

well you can still do the "ctrl shift" combo to see reclaim spot....

true, but having a mas heavy "needle" hidden on the map seems to be deceptive by design, to give an easy start to the one whos knows over the one who doesn't. Reward being attentive to the map sure, not obvious deception.

Anyway, my main issue here is the attitude of "it's your problem" displayed by some everytime someone brings up an honest suggestion or question.

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 27 Aug 2016, 18:41

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-27T18:33:43+02:00

Zoram wrote:
Hawkei wrote:You need to make it your business to know the maps which you are playing on . This means sandboxing them, and exploring them to find all those little things. Do you not think that a more knowledgable player should be rewarded for knowing more about the map?

That's the right attitude to encourage if you want even more of a niche game with an ever dwindling player base.
Having hidden treasure chests adds nothing to the game play. Rewarding players for mindlessly sandboxing every map to check for such "features" just chases away people with others things to do with their lives, for no extra benefit.

well you can still do the "ctrl shift" combo to see reclaim spot....

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 27 Aug 2016, 18:33

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-27T18:16:09+02:00

Hawkei wrote:
You need to make it your business to know the maps which you are playing on . This means sandboxing them, and exploring them to find all those little things. Do you not think that a more knowledgable player should be rewarded for knowing more about the map?

That's the right attitude to encourage if you want even more of a niche game with an ever dwindling player base.
Having hidden treasure chests adds nothing to the game play. Rewarding players for mindlessly sandboxing every map to check for such "features" just chases away people with others things to do with their lives, for no extra benefit.

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 27 Aug 2016, 18:16

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-27T17:33:05+02:00

well i would still like to have veto, so i can select good map; for example map like "x6" are broken because of civilian. Since people choosing the maps can't do it well, kinda want to do it on my side ^^'

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 27 Aug 2016, 17:33

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-27T08:40:41+02:00

LichKing2033 wrote:
Do you know about the tiny in size 300 mass reclaim piece near your spawn on EOTS? Well, I bet many U1000 players wouldn't know that. Fair map? Don't think so.

Everyone knows about the pylon. I've known about that for years - and that was before I knew about Ctrl+Shift overlay.... As I said before. You need to make it your business to know the maps which you are playing on . This means sandboxing them, and exploring them to find all those little things. Do you not think that a more knowledgable player should be rewarded for knowing more about the map?

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 27 Aug 2016, 08:40

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-27T03:01:22+02:00

Do you know about the tiny in size 300 mass reclaim piece near your spawn on EOTS? Well, I bet many U1000 players wouldn't know that. Fair map? Don't think so.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 27 Aug 2016, 03:01

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-26T22:06:55+02:00

LichKing2033 wrote:
I agree that it works fine BUT! If there are any shit maps that are disliked by the majority, they should be substituted for something new. Examples of such maps are EOTS and Haven Reef.

... and why do you be thinking that it is. That they be not liked? Wouldn't it not be that people have a problem with playing on them? Yes they are tricky maps. They make you think. They are not simply a "Spam Tanks to Win" map.

Sure, I get a shudder going down my spine whenever haven reef, or EOTS, or Bermuda Locket, or Emerald Crater would load up. But do you know what? I also realise that my opponent is going through that exact same feeling. So I make it my mission to get good on those maps. So when they come up - even though they are hard, I feel confident that I can at least totally screw around with my opponent and totally mess them up.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 26 Aug 2016, 22:06

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-26T21:53:10+02:00

I agree that it works fine BUT! If there are any shit maps that are disliked by the majority, they should be substituted for something new. Examples of such maps are EOTS and Haven Reef.

Statistics: Posted by Lieutenant Lich — 26 Aug 2016, 21:53

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-26T06:40:39+02:00

Puschkin wrote:
I don't feel like reading all 5 pages so excuse me if this has been mentioned already:

A solution would be:
Imagine every map of the pool is listed TWICE. Players can veto maps, in this variation about 5-7. But when you veto a map, then only ONE entry gets eliminated. The result: Maps that BOTH players vetoed have 0 chance of showing up, maps that ONE player vetoed CAN show up but the chance is 50% of the chance that map nobody vetoed will show up.

This would be the best compromise I can think of - maps that both players hate won't ruin their day but if one hates and the other loves a certain map or type of map (like 20-20 maps or water maps) then it will be less likely to get those but it's not possible for one player to eliminate them all.

This was mentioned in the other 5 pages which you didn't read. But there are some players who do not believe that a veto system will improve ladder. As the veto suggestion is operating on the assumption that players ought to play on maps which they enjoy.

I believe that the whole point of ladder is that it is random, and that it requires one to adapt to all of the maps which are in the map pool. The map pool is kept reasonably small, while providing a good variety of map types, and maps are rotated out on a seasonal basis so that the map pool doesn't get stale. I think that the current system works well.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 26 Aug 2016, 06:40

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-08-25T13:28:18+02:00

I don't feel like reading all 5 pages so excuse me if this has been mentioned already:

A solution would be:
Imagine every map of the pool is listed TWICE. Players can veto maps, in this variation about 5-7. But when you veto a map, then only ONE entry gets eliminated. The result: Maps that BOTH players vetoed have 0 chance of showing up, maps that ONE player vetoed CAN show up but the chance is 50% of the chance that map nobody vetoed will show up.

This would be the best compromise I can think of - maps that both players hate won't ruin their day but if one hates and the other loves a certain map or type of map (like 20-20 maps or water maps) then it will be less likely to get those but it's not possible for one player to eliminate them all.

Statistics: Posted by Puschkin — 25 Aug 2016, 13:28

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-07-29T02:27:38+02:00

Most people find rclaim by using Ctrl+Shift

Statistics: Posted by ZOB — 29 Jul 2016, 02:27

Re: Improving ladder through veto powers

2016-07-29T02:21:52+02:00

Emerald Crater is my favorite map. Knowing the weaknesses of certain units and actions will teach you how to abuse them. The problem is that you haven't put two and two together. T1 raids are very good precisely because T1 and T2 radar have such limited coverage. The low mex count is really good, and this is what makes it harder to do tech rushing. You don't so much spam T1 on this map, as you need to be spreading it out can covering all different areas. Emerald Crater is all about having small garrisons of T1 units, all fighting their own little battles in different places all over the map.

The shear size of the map, and the difficulty in covering it with radar is what make TML batteries and proxy bases viable. Another important thing to note about the map is the utility of air scouts. Because when you have them patrolling in large numbers they are very good at finding stuff. Stealth is a very important ability, and the ability to move higher tech armies around the map by air is very useful. But by far the most interesting thing is that it forces players to do this on a small mass income. So it is a very different map to the usual 4v4 maps in the 20x20 km category.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 29 Jul 2016, 02:21