Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T19:47:28+02:00

Morax wrote:
Honestly, the more crazy ways to fight your opponent the better. Just make the flat area impossible to access by making the height so large you won't have to deal with it.

Height fucks up flying units, the transition is bugged as hell. Just try doing one drop on rohan next to the cliff on the other side.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 05 Jul 2016, 19:47

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T18:09:54+02:00

JoonasTo wrote:
And who wouldn't build proxy bases there to tml the crap out of people?

Oh my dear heavens, no! Strategy in that requires the use of radar and perception in an RTS to prevent disaster? My goodness, no! Please, no!

Honestly, the more crazy ways to fight your opponent the better. Just make the flat area impossible to access by making the height so large you won't have to deal with it.

Statistics: Posted by Morax — 05 Jul 2016, 18:09

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T12:22:12+02:00

Crotalus wrote:
An anti-offmap rewrite (better performance) where units also retained their original move destination was submitted 9 month ago or so, unfortunately it was shot down by the usual opinion squad (losing orders is the shit?). Surprisingly they haven't provided any code / implementation after that.

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/967

If you check the discussion, this was never really rejected. I asked for clarification but you never replied to this?

Reviewing the code, it does seem like much improved to use a single thread that does interval checking, and seemingly you don't drop orders of units that trespass?

Please do rebase and re-open...

Statistics: Posted by Sheeo — 05 Jul 2016, 12:22

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T12:22:39+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
BenDover wrote:It should be possible as its possible to see blips of dead Phantom mass and ene storages hidden off map under certain conditions, dunno what those are excatly cause I never paid much attention to it will test later. I think it shows when game ends and it reveals all units to everyone.

Anyway even if it's not possible you can always create a bitmap for every unit outside map border.

You should never tell a programmer that something is possible if you have yourself no idea how to do it.

I have done it last night just to see if its possible and edited my post adding that last line. Still if youre refering to the first part of my post maybe youre right idk if you can use radar blips, I have no idea where this part of the code is so I cant check myself, if youre kind enough to point me to the right lua file Ill play around with it, otherwise Im too lazy to look through them all

Statistics: Posted by BenDover — 05 Jul 2016, 12:17

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T12:08:28+02:00

zeroAPM wrote:
As long as it is not checking whether a program will halt, nothing is strictly impossible.

That is very far from correct.

Statistics: Posted by ckitching — 05 Jul 2016, 12:08

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T09:49:51+02:00

Ze_PilOt wrote:
You should never tell a programmer that something is possible if you have yourself no idea how to do it.

As long as it is not checking whether a program will halt, nothing is strictly impossible.
Feasibility is another can of worms though.

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 05 Jul 2016, 09:49

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T09:10:17+02:00

An anti-offmap rewrite (better performance) where units also retained their original move destination was submitted 9 month ago or so, unfortunately it was shot down by the usual opinion squad (losing orders is the shit?). Surprisingly they haven't provided any code / implementation after that.

https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/967

Statistics: Posted by Crotalus — 05 Jul 2016, 09:10

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T08:58:49+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
I think zep is right. Off-mapping was an enormous problem before my anti-off map script.

It isn't an enormous problem provided that your AA can shoot off map units - and is no problem at all if they show up as blips on the radar.

Statistics: Posted by Hawkei — 05 Jul 2016, 08:58

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T08:55:02+02:00

BenDover wrote:
It should be possible as its possible to see blips of dead Phantom mass and ene storages hidden off map under certain conditions, dunno what those are excatly cause I never paid much attention to it will test later. I think it shows when game ends and it reveals all units to everyone.

Anyway even if it's not possible you can always create a bitmap for every unit outside map border.

You should never tell a programmer that something is possible if you have yourself no idea how to do it.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 05 Jul 2016, 08:55

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-05T00:29:03+02:00

It should be possible as its possible to see blips of dead Phantom mass and ene storages hidden off map under certain conditions, dunno what those are excatly cause I never paid much attention to it will test later. I think it shows when game ends and it reveals all units to everyone.

Anyway even if it's not possible you can always create a bitmap for every unit outside map border.

Statistics: Posted by BenDover — 05 Jul 2016, 00:29

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-04T15:42:27+02:00

I don't know, off hand, if it's possible to add radar indications of off-map units. If off-map units could be seen on radar, then they would be seen on radar when you have normal radar. It's not possible to simply code anything your heart desires, there are limitations.

That said, it would be possible to exclude some unit types from the anti-off map feature. Scouts and ASFs could be excluded (but then you run into the problem of unstoppable scouting)

It would also be easy to make the off-mapping penalty heavier and simply kill all units that stay off map for more than a few seconds.

I have some other ideas that, perhaps, I will test. Surely there is a better solution.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 04 Jul 2016, 15:42

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-03T16:03:15+02:00

FunkOff wrote:
I think zep is right. Off-mapping was an enormous problem before my anti-off map script. It's not perfect, but it is effective are defeating off-mapping. Sadly, it's difficult to code a script that determines whether the player intended the planes to go off map or not. It treats them equally.

Also, you'll note that there's a clear difference between how official GPG maps are designed and how user-made maps are. GPG maps always had a lot of open space, usually water, between the main playable land and the outside of the map. This is a good way to both defeat off-mapping and stop aircraft of leaving accidentally. In user made maps, however, its common for player bases to be right at the edge of the map or in a corner. On the one hand, it's impossible to stop a strat bomber from going off map when attacking it. On the other hand, this player would absolutely die to any off-map attack if off mapping were allowed.

So you're the one who wrote it, I'll deal with you later on roanoke.

Meanwhile write a script that creates radar blips for all offmap units (or maybe just ground-attacking units so u don't accidentally share ASF numbers with the enemy).

Currently you just replaced one problem with another, traded insta-kill from off map bombers to delivering mass to your enemy because bombers stop in the middle of his base looking around for something to do. Usually you have to micro your ASF while doing bombing runs so you can't really manually aim bombers because they lose order every single time. I have had way less situations where I died to off-map than losing a ton of bombers because they decided to jerk off over enemy sams.

Statistics: Posted by BenDover — 03 Jul 2016, 16:03

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-03T15:55:01+02:00

I think zep is right. Off-mapping was an enormous problem before my anti-off map script. It's not perfect, but it is effective are defeating off-mapping. Sadly, it's difficult to code a script that determines whether the player intended the planes to go off map or not. It treats them equally.

Also, you'll note that there's a clear difference between how official GPG maps are designed and how user-made maps are. GPG maps always had a lot of open space, usually water, between the main playable land and the outside of the map. This is a good way to both defeat off-mapping and stop aircraft of leaving accidentally. In user made maps, however, its common for player bases to be right at the edge of the map or in a corner. On the one hand, it's impossible to stop a strat bomber from going off map when attacking it. On the other hand, this player would absolutely die to any off-map attack if off mapping were allowed.

Statistics: Posted by FunkOff — 03 Jul 2016, 15:55

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-03T15:36:44+02:00

The problem is in engine.

If they have problems getting back on the map, it need to be fixed.

Statistics: Posted by Ze_PilOt — 03 Jul 2016, 15:36

Re: Remove "anti-offmap"

2016-07-03T14:34:21+02:00

If they come back to the map after losing orders then they come back ridiculously slow if at all, it is a notorious problem on water maps if you queue torps to kill unit close to map border and it dies while bombers are off map they are stuck there if not forever then for a very long time and ordering them to return to the map results in order cancelling and they are stuck again. The only way to fix this is to select them manually and spam click attack/move order but that is just pure waste of time and also a work around for this "fix" as you can just spam attack order and it works as it used to. IMO removing this code and replacing it with visible for all radar blips is much better solution.

Statistics: Posted by BenDover — 03 Jul 2016, 14:34