Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-12-09T21:23:28+02:00

Can't buff LABs because Sera gets shafted? It doesn't have to. Forget about the Selen. It's a scout with a gun and that's it. Instead:

Take T1 AA, make its gun toggle to ground fire like Cybran T1 AA.
Decent DPS for cost, high ROF = LABs can't just micro and dodge. Give it the same range as a LAB, so it isn't so effective against other land units.
A few tweaks to hp, movement speed, cost and AA ability and Sera would have a dual purpose LAB and AA. It won't fire out of transports, though.

With this and the LAB buff, each faction can have two direct fire units in their T1 army comp instead of just one.

Statistics: Posted by zolikk — 09 Dec 2015, 21:23

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-11-02T20:52:59+02:00

Didnt know that but fine for t1 mech marine it isnt needed was just another idea for titan. I am thinking all the time what could be the best solution for this thing there are lots of different ways to do this. Normally all units are so called mass worth either with range or damage or life somehow. But units which are not mass worth but have low built time are also part of this. Except t1 light fighting units there are no more of this kind in the game.

I didnt really get why you want to remove hp and increase dps for t1 units here. They will be walking weapons to strong for raiding and ghetto gunships. Better leave the units like they are except built time? To make a unit to much one sided is not good.

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 02 Nov 2015, 20:52

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-11-02T20:36:59+02:00

Iszh wrote:
@ Icedreamer - those bots drain 5 mass/s with lower built time even more that increases effect of adjacency i would not change the values hp and damage ( same adjacency effect could be for titan )

The effect of adjacency is percentage, so nothing will change here. It will reduce the overall cost of the unit the same.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 02 Nov 2015, 20:36

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-11-02T20:09:05+02:00

In fact while thinking about this and titan again i got the same result, yesterday i used them for a t3 rush i won very nice. Maybe since they are like mech marines that was no stupid idea to think about t3 mech marines and to decrease built time for easier rush in a not mass worth unit is a nice idea. At least this unit you can be stopped with several t2 units not like harbinger. But if uef can spam them much more easy they could use them in higher numbers to stop early harbingers. That could be in fact a concept for a t3 mech marine. A second mass worth fighting/raiding unit in uef army is not needed next to percival in my opinion. But in the next beta as i understood t3 land will be reworked completely so not sure if any ideas like this are needed atm.

@ Icedreamer - those bots drain 5 mass/s with lower built time even more that increases effect of adjacency i would not change the values hp and damage ( same adjacency effect could be for titan )

Statistics: Posted by Iszh — 02 Nov 2015, 20:09

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-11-02T19:58:57+02:00

Been thinking about this a lot and... I like it.

Lower buildtime, not as much as in OP, but a bit.
Increase DPS and lower HP such that the combat dynamic between LAB and Tank remains ~ the same.

Result? First, you get them out a bit faster at the start, or in an emergency. That's a buff. Second, the actual combat dynamic is unchanged. No change. Third, lower HP means more easily OHKOed by T2. Nerf. Fourth, and the most crucial element, they become worth building for raiding, as the weakness of using existing tanks for raids is that they actually take quite some time to chew through a mex with no Arty in the mix, and they're slow. The newfound DPS/mass of LABs, while the HP nerf leaves things unchanged when the enemy can fight back, is a straight buff against things which can't... Like mexes.

Statistics: Posted by IceDreamer — 02 Nov 2015, 19:58

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-26T22:14:21+02:00

i agree with this, low buildtime on labs would also make them more viable spam-defense units to counter say arty drop in the base.

as for the seraphim issue, well... if selen could rotate it's weapon and shoot while moving, that would go a long way to making it not completely useless combat-wise.

as it stands, 2 selens cost 5 more mass, 20 more energy than 1 mech marine, do 3 more dps on 2 more range, and have between them 5 less health. Of course the extra cost you are paying for the radar and ability to cloak. So if they could engage like Labs and not have a stupid forward-only firing gun (pretty much the only weapon in the game that is limited to this except maybe czar flak?) on what's supposed to be a mobile unit...

it'd be interesting to see if those 2 selens could defeat a mech marine if they could turn their gun.

regardless of reducing LAB buildtime, allowing selen to rotate its weapon i think is something that should be done.

Statistics: Posted by d-_-b — 26 Oct 2015, 22:14

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-19T21:20:37+02:00

make them being able to build a defense (dragonteeth).
they act then like a static mg nest.
of course they can build themself in but can not come out or have to keep some backdoor open...

OR (edited here the text):
make them be able to build one to three "teeth" in almost instabuild speed.

also to make a variance in factions, one could repair the walls,
cybran could have stealth walls,
arm, ahem, uef, could have one wall extra and sera could have faster turn rate or fire rate when close to walls..

what you trade in is the fast attack bot into a more tankish mg nest. without micro, you build a hardened position.
(edit ends here)

another variant of that what RoLa proposed:

RoLa wrote:
If you want to make them useful in later game give them a special ability to dig in.

if selen stand and turn on the spot, aren't they good enough?
if not, increase turn rate.

the good thign is:
there is no danger to change anything big gameplaywise if you enable them building dragon teeth. it would make the battlefield looking much better because more walls are being made even while in combat!

Statistics: Posted by rxnnxs — 19 Oct 2015, 21:20

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T21:50:57+02:00

yeager wrote:
I agree with ZLO, this could work, but then sera t1 would suck, there is no amount of buffing you can do to the Selen to make it good vs labs (gun doesn't turn) and thaam sucks harshly already, but if you can work that out I'd be all for it

not true, its pretty easy to make selen be great against lab. I rework selen for be anti-labs weapon jast get more manevrability, speed and range as have labs, and it can easy kite labs and dont recive any damage. Or be build with army for additional dps and radar cover.

Zeldafanboy wrote:
I would make tanks have high range and hp, with lower dps and speed.
Labs should have low range and hp, with much higher dps and speed.

this is exaktli how labs work on EQ mod,

tanks have 18r +- 6,6hp/1mass & 0,4dps/1mass & 3,4speed
labs have 13r +-3,8hp/1mass & 0,73dps/1mass & 4,2speed
Selen have 18r 2,8hp/1mass & 0,73dps/1mass & 4,5speed & better manevrability as usual

labs have +- :
20% more speed
45% more dps
45% less hp
30% less range

3987176-Liberius_Quo.fafreplay

Statistics: Posted by Ithilis_Quo — 18 Oct 2015, 21:50

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T20:31:11+02:00

They are already mass worthy, but they aren t build time worthy (you need to take in count roll of from factory too)

Statistics: Posted by keyser — 18 Oct 2015, 20:31

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T18:23:56+02:00

My Answer would be ghettos, now bear with me, I am interested in what happens after you use them

for example 6 labs or 5 labs + 1 engie (if you're kinky like that) can also be a useful force on the ground

i think target prioritisation is key here, the other player should focus on the labs, as they have the same dps as t1 tanks (I am looking at Mech Marine/Striker here) for less mass, less buildtime, faster and more survivablility with micro.

So mixing 1 or 2 labs per 5 tanks into your spam can become common practice, the better you are good with micro, the more you can use them

Also labs being good (and mass efficient) vs. Percivals would open up a niche for the Titan (well...)

Statistics: Posted by mirroredwang — 18 Oct 2015, 18:23

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T17:48:40+02:00

Iszh wrote:
We have already t3 labs called titan and they are shit lets stay at t1 with such stuff please.

Funny that even after how much talk there was about making them worth a damn they still are anti-T1 units that come out at T3.

Ok, they are not really a anti-t1 unit, with overwhelming numbers they can also take on T2 units* too

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 18 Oct 2015, 17:48

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T17:38:38+02:00

Maybe this is a heretical opinion, but in Planetary Annihilation the balance between Dox (bots) and Ants (tanks) is much closer than in FAF. Both are useful even into the mid and sometimes late game.

I would make tanks have high range and hp, with lower dps and speed.

Labs should have low range and hp, with much higher dps and speed.

Statistics: Posted by Zeldafanboy — 18 Oct 2015, 17:38

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T17:17:54+02:00

Thaam then, should get 40 damage per shot...
Or lower LAB hp so thaam kills them with 2 shots, not 3
OR increase muzzle velocity, and fix/increase lab hitbox so thaam will hit labs more often.

Statistics: Posted by ZLO_RD — 18 Oct 2015, 17:17

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T16:15:53+02:00

perhaps, but now you have made sera's sucky raidind even more prominent, cause now they lack a fast unit that can fight back, so its still a big issue

Statistics: Posted by yeager — 18 Oct 2015, 16:15

Re: Buff LAB's: Reduce builtime

2015-10-18T14:59:18+02:00

yeager wrote:
I agree with ZLO, this could work, but then sera t1 would suck, there is no amount of buffing you can do to the Selen to make it good vs labs (gun doesn't turn) and thaam sucks harshly already, but if you can work that out I'd be all for it

Maybe give the Thaam a beam weapon?

Statistics: Posted by Valki — 18 Oct 2015, 14:59