Forged Alliance Forever Forged Alliance Forever Forums 2019-12-20T18:04:16+02:00 /feed.php?f=41&t=15934 2019-09-08T22:57:32+02:00 2019-09-08T22:57:32+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=178029#p178029 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
Eye of the Storm - FAF version
-"Aeon_Fence" aka "The Light" prop got replaced by "Aeon Dock"
-FAF version also ensures symmetrical hydros and middle mexes

Haven Reef - FAF version
-incorporates the fixes from "Haven Reef Fixed"
-FAF version also ensures symmetric placement of props and units
mid base
side base

Check the map vault...

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 08 Sep 2019, 22:57

2019-05-20T12:36:01+02:00 2019-05-20T12:36:01+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=174832#p174832 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]> Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 20 May 2019, 12:36

2019-12-20T17:42:28+02:00 2019-05-12T22:50:33+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=174625#p174625 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
Here is a quick summary of the prop changes.

You can test it on the map FA and FAF Props that contains all currently available props. --> check the vault
Usefull shortcuts are:
  • ctrl+alt+o (display blocked path)
  • ctrl+shift+alt+c (display collision boxes)

Additionally I restored the former reclaim values of the following maps, because the original values got changed due to the Supreme Props integration.

-ensures consistent LOD Cutoff for different prop types and sizes
-improve prop visibility on all maps
-should help preventing 'ctrl-shift' abuse

Rock, Crystal, Ice, Structure, Faction & Wreckage Props
-old LOD Cutoff: 100, 200, 250, 400, 500, 1000
  • new LOD cutoff for prop < 10 Mass: 300
  • new LOD cutoff for prop = 10 Mass: 500
  • new LOD cutoff for prop > 10 Mass: 750 --> LOD of 1000 leads to FPS issues if tree groups get broken

Tree, Bush, Log & Fern Props
-old LOD 1 cutoff: 20, 30, 40, 80
-old LOD 2 cutoff: 175, 200, 250, 400
-old LOD 3 cutoff: 700, 750 & 1000
  • new LOD 1 cutoff: 60
  • new LOD 2 cutoff: 200
  • new LOD 3 cutoff: 750 --> LOD of 1000 leads to FPS issues if tree groups get broken

-fixes wrong LOD3 for e.g. Tropical Palm & Tundra Pine groups
-integrates formerly unused original files for LOD3 e.g. desert and lava trees
-replaced "" to fix shade error
-replaced "lod1.scm" with more detalied "lod0.scm" model for "Manzanita01" --> improves visibility till LOD3 and tree groups no longer missing a small tree in LOD2
-ensure AUDIO for props that are trees or should behave like those e.g. streetlights, fences behave like UEF counterparts -->except "Cybran_Fence_prop.bp" - too big
-ensure SCRIPTCLASS & SCRIPTMODULE for all props that are trees or should behave like those e.g. fence, streetlight
-remove LOD4 from "Brch01_prop.bp" --> it was the only prop with LOD4, all other props have 1, 2 or 3 LOD steps

MIP map improvements/dds changes
-improves tree props that fade out way to early, because the current (last few) MIP maps of the "" don't hold enough information in the alpha channel to be displayed properly --> thx to ozonex for investigating and detecting the MIP map problem
  • Desert: ""
  • Evergreen: "", "", ""
  • Lava: "", "", ""
  • Swamp: ""

-fixes bugs and improves consistency among props of same type and size --> see attached pictures
-makes all props reclaimable (except map elements) --> e.g. small RedRock "Rock_SM" and Tropical "rock01"
-55 props are changed (including 19 map elements)
--> NOTE: prop needs mass value > 0 in order for footprint and blockpath to work correctly e.g. structures theme changes

Map Elements
-19 props become unreclaimable and INVULNERABLE -->"Geysers", "MudPots", "CybranAdjacencyNode" and "ThetaBridge" and all FAF Seraphim II rock props as well as Seraphim II Probe
-LOD cutoff was set to 3000 in order to be displayed continuously
-reclaim values has been set to 1 (energy, mass, time)

Crystalline Theme
--> Fixed size/collision box and reclaim values. This enables us to use these props like in any other theme, without ending up with absurd reclaim values.

Geothermal Theme
--> Mass value of "GeoRock07" now matches other rocks of this size.
--> "Geysers" & "MudPots" become map elements

Redrocks Theme
--> "ThetaBridge" becomes a map element. The behavior stays the same (no blocked path, not reclaimable), but the visible relcaim value was removed.
--> Makes remaining "Rock_SM0X" props reclaimable.

Seraphim II Theme
--> I had to fix almost all sizes/collision boxes, model origins and reclaim values for these props, we need to keep that in mind to improve future prop integrations.
--> All Seraphim II rock props become map elements because of their size (prop still blocks, but visible mass value was removed).

Structures Theme
--> The reclaim values of these props has been set to 1 (energy, mass, time). Mass value was 0 before, but prop needed a mass value >0 for footprint and blockpath to work.

Swamp Theme
--> The reclaim values of "boulder01" now match its type and size.

Factions & Wreckage Theme
--> The reclaim/behavior is now determined by prop size and type.
--> Now every streetlight and fence (except Cybran, prop is too big) behaves like the UEF counterpart.

-many collision boxes got reworked to block the path correctly (area depends on the prop size) --> e.g. crystalline and seraphim theme as well as docks
-ensures Physics > BlockPath --> BlockPath = true, BlockPath = false
-ensures Footprint > OccupancyCaps (not used for tree props) --> OccupancyCaps = 3 (path blocked), OccupancyCaps = 0 (no blocked path)
-BlockPath and OccupancyCaps are connected and bound to ReclaimMassMax --> ReclaimMassMax >= 10 blocks (true, 3), < 10 does not block (false, 0)
-now all props (except trees) with a mass value > = 10 block the path --> e.g. RedRocks, Swamp, Tundra
-removes FootprintSizeX/Y => redundant, seems to be replaced by FOOTPRINT --> only used in "RedRocks\Props\Rock_SM01-7_prop.bp", "RedRocks\Props\Rock01-2_prop.bp", "Tropical\Props\Rocks\Rock01_prop.bp"

Model Origin Fixes
-in order to block the path correctly (fix collision box offset) and display the reclaim value in the props center, the origin was corrected for 56 models --> e.g. Tropical "rock01", Tundra "icerock02"
-excludes "ThetaBridge01" because the origin is way off and all maps containing it, need to be reworked if the origin is changed
-check collision boxes via "ctrl+shift+alt+c"
-check blocked path via "ctrl+alt+o"
--> blocked path is forced to in game grid -> "normal offset"
-see test map

-ensures right structure-tree for different prop types --> e.g. rock, tree, structures & wreckage have different value requirements
-fixed number values like SizeZ = .0 --> 0.0 | "" --> 0
-ensures DEFENSE for remaining props
-improves "HelpText"
-added missing files to "seraphim_streetlight" under "Common" and fixed it so it can be used
-fixed formerly broken blueprint of geothermal "GeoRock01". It can now be used for the first time --> 37,5 mass yummy

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 12 May 2019, 22:50

2019-03-17T15:47:50+02:00 2019-03-17T15:47:50+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=172805#p172805 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]> post can also be found on github

Dear balance team / interested person,

I prepared the following file to start a discussion about the lovely reclaim value changes. The file displays the changes for each of the 57 props in question and the reason why it should be changed. Pictures are added to get a feel for size ratio.

Feedback - Reclaim Value Changes.xls
Please enter your thoughts and return the file to me (svenni_badbwoi: forum, discord, slack).
-Changes are marked yellow
-300 mass props are marked pink
-Only use filter, sorting will change the picture order.

These changes are "no cosmetic changes" like LOD! So far the mapping community seems to welcome the changes. The applied values match "mass_value A", except "D", special "M" and "map elements".

I recommend launching the fa_props map to compare all props and themes.

I intend to make the reclaim value of a prop more intuitive and also enable map makers to use all the themes for there maps (e.g. make a crystal map without ending up with mad reclaim values). The general idea is to fix bugged props (different value as props of same size and type) and improve the 300 mass props (most -if not all- of these props seems to be unfinished, because they have a copy&paste bp from the largest rock prop in the game "/Evergreen/Props/Rocks/SeaRock02_prop.bp").


Maybe some prop themes should/could be treated differently, here are some ideas:
1) Props of the faction's and crystalline theme could seen as more valuable compared to rock props. Value could be worth twice as much as props of same size
2) Structures could become map element too. So no value needs to be applied and they simply block path. But its kinda strange, because we are able to reclaim buildings of the same size all day in game.

I'm open for suggestions and look forward to your feedback.

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 17 Mar 2019, 15:47

2019-02-11T01:05:33+02:00 2019-02-11T01:05:33+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171871#p171871 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>

BUG & LOD FIXES are integrated like in the original mod.
The reclaim values remain mostly untouched, except I considered them as BUG FIXES. The props I touched reclaim wise are highlighted in the picture, see here: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15934&p=171871#p171312 The applied values match "mass_value A", except "D", special "M" and "map elements".


- added 234 original FA env "_prop.bp" files to FAF
- replaced '# ' with '-- ' comments
- removed white spaces, tabs to spaces, corrected formatting
- fixed structure in \env\Geothermal\Props\Rocks\GeoRock01_prop.bp
- added new '' to fix shade error!

- fix values like SizeZ = .0 --> 0.0
- excluded Seraphim II, marker, emitter and other unsuited props

- apply Supreme Props LOD where it was needed
- fix wrong or none LOD 3 (including shadername3 and adapted shadername2 if needed)
- fix SIZE where it is off (too huge block e.g. Crystalline; to small block e.g. Aeon, Cybran & Seraphim ). This also improves the collision boxes (check in game on fa_props map with ctrl+shift+alt+c). Some conflict could not be resolved due to the prop origin not being in the (volume) center
- fix RECLAIM VALUES where it was needed e.g. Structures (had no value), most of broken 300 mass props like small crystals (this allows map maker to use the props more often) and some props that were clearly off. See info and change pic: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15934&start=10#p171312
- NOTE: props needs mass value >0 for footprint and blockpath to work

- TROPICAL single ficus' and palm's remain untouched

- ensure right structure-tree for different prop types (e.g. rock, tree, structures & wreckage have different value requirements)
- fix NUMBER VALUES like ReclaimEnergyMax = "" --> 0
- ensure AUDIO for props that are trees or should behave like those e.g. streetlights, fences behave like UEF counterparts (except Cybran_Fence_prop.bp - too big)
- make remaining props 'RECLAIMABLE' and remove 'SELECTABLE' from Ice_Crystal_01_prop.bp
- ensure COLLISION OFFSET for props that are trees or should behave like those e.g. streetlight, fences (except Cybran_Fence_prop.bp - too big)
- ensure DEFENSE for remaining props
- remove LOD4 from Brch01_prop.bp
- ensure BLOCK PATH (true, false) and FOOTPRINT (OccupancyCaps = 3, OccupancyCaps = 0) if needed. Both are connected and bound to ReclaimMassMax (>= 10 blocks, <10 does not block)
- DO NOT BLOCK PATH for floating or flat props even if mass value is > 10 (only used for ThetaBridge01_prop.bp, Cybran_Dock_prop.bp, UEF_Dock_prop.bp & Seraphim_Car_02_prop.bp)
- made geyser's, mudpot's and theta bridge MAP ELEMENTS (similar to FAF Seraphim II props): Set category to 'INVULNERABLE' (removed 'RECLAIMABLE'), reclaim values to 1 (only to ensure block path if needed) and LOD to 3000
- remove FootprintSizeX/Y => redundant, seems to be replaced by FOOTPRINT (only used in RedRocks\Props\Rock_SM01-7_prop.bp, RedRocks\Props\Rock01-2_prop.bp, Tropical\Props\Rocks\Rock01_prop.bp)
- ensure SCRIPTCLASS & SCRIPTMODULE for all props that are trees or should behave like those e.g. fence, streetlight

Changes as picture to check number of changed props
Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 11 Feb 2019, 01:05

2019-03-13T00:47:39+02:00 2019-01-23T01:21:14+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171312#p171312 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
- I like to change the highlighted props (all of them got strange or no value e.g. crystal, faction and structures props)
- "G" set mass from 1 to 38
- crystal mess (yellow): fixed 300 values (already fixed blocked area, had size of huge rock)
- map elements (pink): I like to change the category of "H" and "L" to 'INVULNERABLE', set mass value to 1 and LOD to 3000 (similar to FAF Seraphim II props)

mass_value A / mass_value B

-"mass_value B" are the values I had in mind, but if you think it is too much, we could go with 75 (mass_value A: for A, B, C, E & F) since it would fit the given props as well
-special: "K" to 75 because geothermal theme already has many 175 value props. And if "L" becomes a map elements the theme badly needs a 75 (also helps not buffing "the ditch" so much)
-special: "M" to 112,5 because the crystal theme has no 112,5 and 300 is to much (new value keeps also in line with evergreen rocks of similar size)

NOTE: The applied values match "mass_value A", except "D", special "M" and "map elements"


Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 23 Jan 2019, 01:21

2019-01-21T00:06:04+02:00 2019-01-21T00:06:04+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171270#p171270 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
it workes, but unfortunately its not affecting the blocks area what I was aiming for.
It only seems to be used to break a tree group into single elements.
Does anybody know how I could create an offset for the blocked area (green), to fix misplaced model origins without changing the model itself?

I also found ctrl+alt+o for debugging o grid that shows blocks area (if prop blocks). that helps a lot in finding the culprits ;)

CollisionOffsetXY 20 (blue) + debuggong o grid (green).JPG

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 21 Jan 2019, 00:06

2019-01-20T22:26:29+02:00 2019-01-20T22:26:29+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171269#p171269 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
svenni_badbwoi wrote:
speed2 wrote:I think thats moving the collision box

is the collision box determined by sizeX,Y,Z?
than my approach should work..

yes, you can display them with ctrl shift alt c
when cheats are enabled

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 20 Jan 2019, 22:26

2019-01-20T22:05:38+02:00 2019-01-20T22:05:38+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171264#p171264 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
speed2 wrote:
I think thats moving the collision box

is the collision box determined by sizeX,Y,Z?
than my approach should work..

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 20 Jan 2019, 22:05

2019-01-20T22:02:33+02:00 2019-01-20T22:02:33+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171263#p171263 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]> Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 20 Jan 2019, 22:02

2019-01-20T22:04:16+02:00 2019-01-20T21:58:23+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171262#p171262 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
geyser's and mud pot's are currently reclaimable (74 mass)
- should they become unreclaimable to be used more often as map element?
- If so, I will set categorie to 'INVULNERABLE' and mass value to 1 and create and exception for bp creation

the theta bridge is currently unreclaimable but has a mass value of 150
- should it stay a map element (same procedure like above^) or should it be reclaimable?

the origin of some props is off (can be seen on reclaim value icon)
- should I try to fix those as well?

can someone tell me what CollisionOffsetX, CollisionOffsetZ and CollisionOffsetz exactly does?
I thought I can correct a misplaced model origin with that, but its not working like I hoped it would. Seems to do nothing..

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 20 Jan 2019, 21:58

2019-01-21T19:56:41+02:00 2019-01-18T21:02:53+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=171208#p171208 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
the Supreme Props (BUG FIXES & LOD) integration into FAF is almost done. I tested the changes and it works.
But some questions came up (see next post), where I need an answer to progress.

Please take a moment and look at my changes before they make it into github.

The pictures below shows an overview over my workflow - what and why I did it.
And here is an .xls change file, that shows the current vs new bp value column by column (yellow marks changes, pink questions).

FAF - Supreme Props features.JPG
geyser & mud pod (reclaimable block_path mass_value or not) + model orign off (red current blockd path, yellow optimization).jpg
structures - no reclaim value - 3 props no texture.jpg
thanks in advance..

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 18 Jan 2019, 21:02

2018-12-03T21:55:14+02:00 2018-12-03T21:55:14+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=170023#p170023 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
PhilipJFry wrote:
@svenni_badbwoi we had a discussion in the balance team about your mod
we are currently not ok with the value changes and how they affect the balance and thus decided to reject them
all the other things (bugfixes etc.) are fine with us so as soon as you make a pull request i can get someone to do a code review and then test and merge it for the next game patch

Thanks for the support!
To ensure that I got it right:
I can focus on BUG FIXES and LOD CHANGES?!
Okay. But there are some things you need to know/we need to clarify..

-Removes LOD errors in some tree props (wrong or non LOD3 in Desert, Evergreen, Lava, Tropical und Tundra theme)
-Makes remainimg props 'RECLAIMABLE' (Common, RedRocks and Tropical theme - go reclaim the 'ThetaBridge'!)
1 - Blocks path consistent for none living props worth >=10 mass (except Cybran/UEF dock (flat), 2 props that hover in mid air or you reclaim them)
-All streetlights and small fences behave like UEF ones (Fall like trees)
1 - Structures theme gets new reclaim values (otherwise they do not block, because missing mass value)
-Unsolved Bug: Original file for LOD3 '' has shade error (bottom left)

1 = requires me to make reclaim value changes, where mass value is missing (e.g. structures and some rocks, otherwise the props wont block). I like to apply my rock reclaim values where it occurs, okay?
And what about: big stone worth 10 mass while small crystals and some street lights are worth 300 mass? This is currently in RECLAIM VALUES and not in BUG FIXES.

-LOD is based on mass value, prop size and prop typ
-Props will be displayed before you can reclaim them (Should help preventing 'ctrl-shift' abuse: Former props with LOD 100 from crystalline, tropical and evergreen could be reclaimed without being visible)
3 - Fixes tree props not being displayed after LOD2 (Added missing LOD3, fixed LODCutoff1 and ShaderName2 for continuous visibility)
3 - Fixes tree groups dispaying wrong albedo at LOD3 (Palms, Tundra Pine)
3 - LOD fixes integrate unused/matching original files
3 - Removed LOD4 from 'Brch01_props.bp' (All other have 1,2 or 3 LOD steps)
-Could influence performance (Works fine for me, but needs to be tested)

New LOD steps:
-former LOD range 30-1000, but only a few with LOD 1000

Rocks (none living props):
    •LOD1: 300 (<=5 mass)
    •LOD2: 400 (>5-10 mass)
    •LOD3: 750 (>=37,5 mass)
Trees (living props):
    •LOD1: 30 (80 for trees with missing LOD3 to improve transition e.g. dead lava trees)
    •LOD2: 200
    •LOD3: 750

2 = requires me to make changes to all prop bp's
3 = included in BUG FIXES

I believe I will start working on BUG FIXES in January. This way I don't have to change all bp's at once and there is still time to receive feedback and discuss reclaim values before I start working on the LOD part.

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 03 Dec 2018, 21:55

2018-12-01T15:26:39+02:00 2018-12-01T15:26:39+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=169976#p169976 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
Anyways, because Svenni doesn't have a youtube account, I uploaded the video presentation to youtube to make it easier to see.

It's here: ...

Statistics: Posted by biass — 01 Dec 2018, 15:26

2019-12-20T18:04:16+02:00 2018-12-01T14:46:27+02:00 /viewtopic.php?t=15934&p=169974#p169974 <![CDATA[Re: Supreme Props]]>
speed2 encouraged me to implement parts of my mod into FAF. To find out which parts will come through, I like some feedback from you before I start working on it again. I would be glad, if you could support me by testing my mod.

I need feedback on:
  • Bug fixes (changes in LOD and reclaim value)
  • LOD performance on weak computers
  • LOD changes/impression
  • Reclaim value changes/impression (balance team?)
  • Performance/impression on regular played maps (e.g. Setons, Wonder, Daroza's Sanctuary, Syrtis Major, Twin River, Loki, Bunny Roanoke ...)
  • Performance/impression on maps with "many" props or with different prop themes

Play it on your favorite maps or FA and FAF Props (check the vault) that contains all currently available props (2019). You can download the mod in the vault.
If you need a warm up, check out the video presentation to get started.

thanks in advance

Statistics: Posted by svenni_badbwoi — 01 Dec 2018, 14:46