Forged Alliance Forever

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2018-01-03T01:10:29+02:00

Yes, theses are micro tricks for 1 or a few number of planes. This figure is manualy casted by ui.

I think we can do some group auto behavior : for example, imagine we cast a group strategic power from a plane in the group. This power cast a getaroundunits function that reads all the targets from all units involved in the area. Then if we read that a plane that is targeted by more that 2 or 3 opponents planes -> this auto cast for a veteran plane a defensive retreat with a speed buff figure for the defender cause it's an unbalanced 3 vs 1 fight.

Another auto behavior can be that a plane is pursued from rear (we can read this by looking at defender and opponent orientation) and auto cast a figure (like the cobra) when the conditions (veterancy level, distance, speed...) are ok. We can add a 2-3s buff to the figure. This reduces the apm effort.

The idea is that we can auto cast some figures for higher skilled aircraft because we can read the projectile orientation, the defenser and opponent orientation and speed. If the unit is hit from rear we can cast this type of figure, from front this one and so on...

If all of this is well coded, this can increase the epicness visuals of a fight.

i need to think it more and create some figure to test this and try to keep it cpu friendly.

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 03 Jan 2018, 01:10

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2018-01-02T18:03:35+02:00

this is actually some pretty cool shit.

it would be interesting to see something where you can have a few planes and try all these micro tricks.

i wonder how that would work out ui wise though, if each plane has a few maneuvers that seems to make the skill required to micro them very high indeed

this sounds like it would be a lot easier to manage with a few planes. rather than the 100s of asf or w.e. we see on sentons

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 02 Jan 2018, 18:03

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2018-01-02T16:28:27+02:00

YES !!!!

It finally works !!!

Pursued defender aircraft performing a Pugachev cobra figure and becoming the assailant.

Real speed

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Of course we can add dodging capabilities and it s possible to realize any kind of figure !!! So epic micro fights are possible with counter figures !

For example we can unlock more technical and deadfull figure options with veteran level.

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 02 Jan 2018, 16:28

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T22:00:49+02:00

I didn't succeed in making my animation working under supcom

This is my code that i cast on fork thread :

Code:: unit.CobraFigure = CreateAnimator(unit, true) unit.CobraFigure:PlayAnim(ModPath..'Modules/UEA0303/UEA0303_Cobra.sca') unit.CobraFigure:SetRate(1)

I follow the blender advices here https://github.com/Oygron/SupCom_Import_Export_Blender

i ve got no export error in blender neither in supcom. But nothing happens.

Where am i wrong ?

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Dec 2017, 22:00

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T18:14:39+02:00

Finally did the animation for UEF ASF.

Just have to look how to trigger and play it in supcom with modifying speed, turn rate and acc.

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Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Dec 2017, 18:14

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T17:28:06+02:00

JoonasTo wrote:
Perhaps we could create dummy targets(this seems like a horribly inefficient way to go at it) around the ASF to force it to pull up/down since it is already capable of doing altitude switching but the we'd somehow have to block the trailing ASF from easily following. I don't know of a good way to do this. Perhaps someone(well kinda your area Franck xD) knows if there is a way to make units nontargettable with statuses?

Yes, you can toggle off the collision so the missile pass thru the unit !

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Dec 2017, 17:28

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T17:29:34+02:00

Very interesting, ty all for your replies.

This affects should work

By animator, exo, you mean a .sca file ?

So what we can do is adding a dodge bonus when executing the .sca figure, so by toggling collision, it is possible to create a % chance to miss the target. So during the figure, the missile can simply pass thru the aircraft with aesthetics visual.

I need to try all of this, but i suppose .sca animations should covert a wide coordonate range, and permit to divert from original coordonates. I hope the collision box will follow the aircraft moves.

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Dec 2017, 17:22

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T17:09:09+02:00

one reason why it doesnt quite make sense for such moves in supcom is that unlike real planes, air in faf can shoot in a wide cone around itself and so doesnt need to point directly at the enemy. Interestingly modern fighters do that with missiles too now.

what you want to do should be possible via scripts:
you can create the animator and run it on demand that way, just call the function when needed, and you can also toggle the collisions and such via scripts, indeed most projectiles do exactly that.

as speed said, you cant modify blueprints once they have been registered. thats just life. but you can change a lot of the values on the fly afterwards. not all though. pretty sure its almost none of the ones shown in the picture.

Statistics: Posted by Exotic_Retard — 31 Dec 2017, 17:09

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T17:06:22+02:00

Perhaps we could create dummy targets(this seems like a horribly inefficient way to go at it) around the ASF to force it to pull up/down since it is already capable of doing altitude switching but the we'd somehow have to block the trailing ASF from easily following. I don't know of a good way to do this. Perhaps someone(well kinda your area Franck xD) knows if there is a way to make units nontargettable with statuses?

UI mod can already achieve the same effect regarding slowing down and making tight turns btw. It won't look amazing or change altitudes but you can do this yourself with manual micro as well where you slow/stop the ASF in place(Pugachev's cobra) by giving it repeated movement orders on the spot. Similarly you can achieve tight turns with spamming movement orders and/or stop command.
These hold the problem that no airspeed is preserved so they're not "real" combat maneuvers as such but for gameplay purposes they're very useful and every player above a certain rating (should) know these.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 31 Dec 2017, 17:06

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T16:45:53+02:00

No, this is not possible. Engine and stuff.
You also can't change blueprints after they are loaded.

Spoiler: show

Statistics: Posted by speed2 — 31 Dec 2017, 16:45

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T16:40:26+02:00

Ty JoonasTo for your reply.

Indeed, it's not an easy task

There are specific aircraft values in bp (here UEF ASF) with all the values needed.

When importing UEF ASF model to blender, we can see that it is rigged with armature. But there are no animation.

It should be possible to release simple rotation animations as the Pugachev's cobra (or a dodging rotating on itself and at the same time turn off on impact projectile collision) . But Bp values cannot be modified in real time.

The only way we can do something for what i know is by changing bp in realtime and use some simple animations.

Is it possible to release an instant bp switching for 5s and go back to original bp ?

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Dec 2017, 16:40

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T15:48:48+02:00

My first thought was that it can but also that there's a reason why the air-altitude's are relatively static and will probably mess with a bunch of other stuff. Might be a hell of a lot more work in places you wouldn't expect. ^^

First you will need to touch the air unit physic values because their agility is next to none(turn speed at least, this is not technically necessary but without it, the maneuvers will take them all over the map and they will fly to places you really don't want them to be.) After that it becomes a question of can we give air units height coordinates for movement in addition to the horizontal ones.

PS. The Cobra isn't really a combat maneuver, it's more of a show of the plane's capabilities.

Statistics: Posted by JoonasTo — 31 Dec 2017, 15:48

Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T13:15:46+02:00

I especially love this one :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pugachev%27s_Cobra

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Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Dec 2017, 13:15

Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

2017-12-31T13:27:28+02:00

Hi All,

I'm thinking about adding some micro combat fight solutions inspired by true air fights. But i'm entering in the area of 3D supcom animations that i have no experience.

Some have more experience to say if this kind of stuff can be realized ?

Imagine you have combat fight powers (with keyb shortcuts) to trigger specifics aircraft figures :

Low Yo-Yo :
he low Yo-Yo is one of the most useful maneuvers, which sacrifices altitude for an instantaneous increase in speed. This maneuver is accomplished by rolling with the nose low into the turn, and dropping into a steeper slice turn. By utilizing some energy that was stored in the vertical plane, the attacker can quickly decrease range and improve the angle of the attack, literally cutting the corner on the opponent's turn. The pilot then pulls back on the stick, climbing back to the defender's height. This helps slow the aircraft and prevents an overshoot, while placing the energy back into altitude. A defender spotting this maneuver may try to take advantage of the increase in AOT by tightening the turn in order to force an overshoot. The low Yo-Yo is often followed by a high Yo-Yo, to help prevent an overshoot, or several small low Yo-Yos can be used instead of one large maneuver.

High Yo-Yo :
The high Yo-Yo is a very effective maneuver, and very difficult to counter. The maneuver is used to slow the approach of a fast moving attacker while conserving the airspeed energy. The maneuver is performed by reducing the angle at which the aircraft is banking during a turn, and pulling back on the stick, bringing the fighter up into a new plane of travel. The attacker then rolls into a steeper pitch turn, climbing above the defender. The trade-off between airspeed and altitude provides the fighter with a burst of increased maneuverability. This allows the attacker to make a smaller turn, correcting an overshoot, and to pull in behind the defender. Then, by returning to the defenders plane, the attacker restores the lost speed while maintaining energy.

Lag Displacement Roll
A lag displacement roll, also called a "lag roll", is a maneuver used to reduce the angle off tail by bringing the attacker from lead pursuit to pure, or even lag pursuit. The maneuver is performed by rolling up and away from the turn, then, when the aircraft's lift vector is aligned with the defender, pulling back on the stick, bringing the fighter back into the turn. This maneuver helps prevent an overshoot caused by the high AOT of lead pursuit, and can also be used to increase the distance between aircraft.

High-G Barrel Roll
A high-g barrel roll is a combination of a loop and a snap roll. A high g barrel roll is a last-ditch defensive maneuver, performed when the attacker has achieved a suitable guns solution, in order to cause an overshoot. The high-g barrel roll is a violent maneuver which is performed much more aggressively than a normal barrel roll. Range is critical to the success of the roll, and the defender will usually turn very hard, or employ other measures to draw the opponent very close before performing the roll. The roll is executed by applying hard back-stick pressure, creating the high g-forces, and adding hard rudder input to assist the ailerons in rolling the fighter. A high-g barrel roll can be performed "over-the-top", or it can be performed "underneath", which is accomplished by rolling upside-down and beginning the maneuver from the inverted position. The high-g barrel roll is an energy-depleting maneuver that rarely causes the attacker to fly out in front, but usually will result in a flight path overshoot, a flat scissors, or, at the very least, will temporarily disrupt the attacker's aim.

Rolling Scissors

Rolling scissors, also called vertical scissors, tend to happen after a high-speed overshoot from above. The defender reverses into a vertical climb and into a barrel roll over the top, forcing the attacker to attempt to follow. The advantage lies in the aircraft that can pull its nose through the top or bottom of the turn faster. In battles with aircraft that have a thrust-to-weight ratio of less than one the aircraft will quickly lose altitude, and crashing into the ground becomes a possibility.[50] According to author Mike Spick, "Disengagement from a vertical rolling scissors is best made with a split-s and a lot of hope."

Defensive Spiral

A defender that fails to outmaneuver the attacker can quickly become "out of airspeed and ideas". The defensive spiral is a maneuver used by the defender when the kinetic energy becomes depleted and other last-ditch maneuvers can not successfully be implemented. The maneuver consists of dropping the nose low during the turn and going into a spiral dive, using gravity to supply the energy needed to continue evasive action. The defensive spiral becomes a rolling scissors performed straight down. The defender's goal is to stay out of phase with the attacker until the ground is dangerously close. The advantage usually goes to the aircraft that can decelerate quicker, and the defender will often cut the power and extend the speedbrakes in an effort to force an overshoot. If this attempt is unsuccessful, the defender will usually pull out of the dive at the last possible second, hoping to cause the attacker to crash into the ground.

Much more here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers

If this kind of stuff can be realized this may upgrade micro combat fight to a huge level of epicness. Imagine the fun of the replays !

Statistics: Posted by Franck83 — 31 Dec 2017, 13:09