Forged Alliance Forever

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-02-21T21:19:44+02:00

This game kind of reminds me of a story about Zhuge Liang, the famed Chinese general. Apparently he had occupied a fort with a very small force of units, but scouts reported word that Sima Yi of the opposing army was on his way with an overwhelmingly superior force. There was no way Zhuge Liang could defend himself from this attack, so he told everyone to open all the gates and just leave.

Then, when Sima Yi arrived, Zhuge Liang went to the top of the walls in a set of robes and played sitar like the world's earliest Hippie sit-in. Sima Yi got a look at how unreasonably simple this conquest appeared and immediately decided it was a horrible trap meant to kill him and everyone. He ordered his men to retreat, so they could organize a plan and prepare siege engines. Within that period, Zhuge Liang's reinforcements arrived in great enough number that the battle would be bloody and hopelessly Pyrrhic even if Sima Yi achieved his victory.

Basically, you played Sima Yi in this game, if Zhuge Liang had been shooting from the walls with a bow and arrow and Sima Yi had ordered, "Nobody move from here! His arm will get tired eventually!" So, you know, not only did you allow Zhuge Liang to stall long enough to reinforce his base, but you also let your men get killed in droves by forcing them to set camp within artillery range. On top of that, even though you had three bases to his one, he absolutely dominated you in the resource game for like a half hour, after which you merely came to rival his income before he attacked you with something like fifteen Percivals and won.

Afterward you asked him, "Why'd you just go up on the wall and play sitar, Zhuge Liang?" like it was something he did wrong.

He replies, "Why not?"

Statistics: Posted by Flamingo — 21 Feb 2015, 21:19

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-02-21T20:04:40+02:00

Flynn wrote:
He didn't insult anyone, I have said far worse in rage. 1v1 players are not used to countering such frowned up on noob tactics, so getting beaten by them is extra embarrassing.

That type of play style used by the noob can lull you into a false sense of security and it is annoying when you know that happened.

how is that noobish ? he had a far better eco nearly at all times through the game and came out of his turtle to defeat the one single threat posed to his base during the whole game, the scathis.

I get brain dead all the times, so I'm not judging, I do far worse on a daily basis. But this game is not about noob tactic, it's about one player who got map control then did absolutely nothing for the rest of the game (throwing two spiders against a bunch of T3PD doesn't count), while he had over 30 minutes being totally left alone with about unlimited resources (how many mexes ?) that he could have used to build absoluty anything he wanted. Hell, 20 tactical missiles launchers and he was probably good. or just a few bricks to protect his scathis, which he really could have afforded easily.

And calling someone retarded when you get defeated is what I call insulting.

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 21 Feb 2015, 20:04

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-02-21T19:35:41+02:00

He didn't insult anyone, I have said far worse in rage. 1v1 players are not used to countering such frowned up on noob tactics, so getting beaten by them is extra embarrassing.

That type of play style used by the noob can lull you into a false sense of security and it is annoying when you know that happened.

Statistics: Posted by Flynn — 21 Feb 2015, 19:35

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-02-21T17:03:57+02:00

just watched the replay, quite a show ...

Why on earth would you insult him at the end, especially on his gameplay since by comparison he did way better than you.

I don't understand your strategy from the start of the turtle phase.
You could have blinded him totally with sams outside of his base and stealth generators everywhere. Instead he had T1 scout planes all over the map, even on the ground in your base, with full knowledge of your gameplan.

it wouldn't have cost you much resources to defend your scathis, it only took him about 10 percivals to basically win the game, you had no units anywhere besides a few bricks here and there.

I'm not judging the skills, I wouldn't have lasted that long, but it looks like you went for a nap for 40 minutes after winning map control and just woke up to build a few XPs from time to time, without defending them.

the insults at the end really, wtf?!!

Statistics: Posted by Zoram — 21 Feb 2015, 17:03

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-02-15T00:52:00+02:00

Things i can think of:

1) You should've tried to position those few MMLs or arties on the ridge with 3 mass points. It'd give you easier time destroying all those turrets, and you could've even reach his base outskirts from there. Even missiles from Vipers more often than not hit those lines of walls instead of intended target. Another vector would've cut the TTK time on the turrets on half, i believe

2) You should've set up a radar that would cover his base so you'd have a rough idea on his buildings and whatnot. Also could set a firebase with TMLs in middle. You can never do wrong with TML, especially if you are cybran. Those are vital, even if your enemy is turtling,

3) By the 15-18 minutes mark you could have a Corsairs out, that would help you with their awesome splash to break through those disgusting lines of walls - if you really insist on this.

4) You stalled quite a few times. Map domination is not an excuse for stall.

On some point he built few Klink Hammers. Usually stationary arty emplacements are a bad idea. And you could've utilize a mobile stealth field generators to set up this firebase, get some shields on it and so on. The first group got around a hundred kills on your T1 and T2 force along with some inties you parked in vicinity of his base.

Another idea i can think of is to snipe his side installations with TMLs or arty or something and try to drop something. Would've worked on earlier stages.

And BTW, he completely neglected nuke defence. As you did with reclaiming all those civilian buildings in the middle and on side passages.

Statistics: Posted by Darth_Google — 15 Feb 2015, 00:52

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-02-02T16:07:16+02:00

I have had quite a few games like this in my time. It is always very, very frustrating to lose like that to someone whom you know is using a strategy that technically shouldn't work. I am sure from watching the replay that you saw how effective that Scathis was. There were two mistakes 1. sending your experimentals in. 2. Not anticipating his counter to your Scathis. If you had those experimentals guarding your Scathis you would have won that game. And you needed way more air both t1 and t3 and you started your t1 spam at 8 minutes in. If he doesn't build t1 then you can deny his mexes, his reclaim, everything. But he had got a lot of mass from having his mexes up in the middle of the map and from reclaim before you even started t1 spam.

Playing someone like that is infuriating, don't get me wrong, there was this Canadian guy, Flood, who I played several times and he had a similar play style and even though I knew how he played and that I should not be lazy that kind of play style seems to put me in a trance and make me lazy even though I don't want to be. But yeah in that particular game you would have won had you kept your Scathis up and in general you should have got t1 spam online quicker and build a lot more air, ints, asfs and bombers.

Statistics: Posted by Flynn — 02 Feb 2015, 16:07

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-28T18:18:20+02:00

just watched this game and it was pretty funny. what happened was so unlikely.

i think you did well in certain ways (map control). the game was yours, but you amazingly got behind in eco even though you had 3/4 of the map. in this situation, you still have to keep up in eco, it is just much cheaper for you to do it than your opponent. so i think to get behind in eco was really bad. just count his t3 mexes and make sure have the same number - it's pretty easy. i think it helps if you can recognize the moments where you are invincible - think to yourself - there is nothing this guy can do at all to hurt me - and in those moments you can get very very far ahead in eco / tech.

at the end of the game you flamed him about his strategy, even though he kicked your ass. i think that was pretty shit of you.

hate don't fly in this airport.

Statistics: Posted by nine2 — 28 Jan 2015, 18:18

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-28T15:37:28+02:00

I don't know exactly what you did or how skilled both of you were. But wouldn't Arty spam>MML spam>T3 arty spam solve the problem? He can build only so many shields.

Statistics: Posted by LegatusDivinae — 28 Jan 2015, 15:37

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-26T18:39:41+02:00

NodCommander wrote:
da_monstr wrote:Look at it this way... At the time you had 50 mass income, he had 150. And that was some epic turtling. If you would have just strat sniped, you could have done it though, but there was a severe lack of air from both of you.

All in all, he deserved to win.

Thats not part of the discussion, however. A winning strategy is always winning. Again, this is about helping me figure a solution to stupid situations like this. Its not exactly like they are common, are they? And I dont exactly play Gap/Thermo, so I literarly got no experience with strategies such as this.

As for the person in question, as I said, he does this on every single non-5x5 map. Its not a perticular problem with the map, nor a unique problem to myself. No need to put on such a "tone".

Reaper Zwei wrote:
Well with that map your starting position is quite defensible(as you no doubt learned in that match). If you had prepared for an attack against your scathis or instead of going in with the t4 you made just have them hold back and defend then I think the scathis would have won it for you. building up a bunch of strats and sniping him might have worked as well.

I am well aware of this. However, one would -think- three Monkeylords and a Megalith would be more than enough to kill an opponent in a 1v1 ladder match. Hard to see into the future and easier when you got full-map view as a spectator. Again, I got almost no experience with sitations like this what so ever.

Stratbombers probably would have done it too, I agree. Tunnelvision is to blame here, any normal kind of play would have put him far far ahead with ASFs, yet he built none and I failed to see this. Last time they won me the game though. Probably had 10-20 of the along with a Soul Ripper, rushed his SMD and nuked him. That probably would have worked.

I know very well why I failed in the late game. It is just how it can be so hard to kill an opponent who refuses to build units in the early game which stumps me.

It's not a "tone", as you put it... just a personal observation on what happenned. What happenned is the fact you were far out of your comfort zone in that game, and he was IN his. It's like arguing with idiots... they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. Be as uncooperative as you can be. Raid his outer mex, use drops, snipe off his power, disassemble his base bit by bit. Whatever it takes.

Statistics: Posted by da_monstr — 26 Jan 2015, 18:39

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-26T18:08:09+02:00

zeroAPM wrote:
Heh, at least he can play UEF right, i can't even do that.

Haha. Well, I would exactly call it the right way seeing how inefficient and slow it is. It is a way though, surely. I'd more call it Sim City though.

Gorton wrote:
The problem is that you did not use the huge mass advantage you had from reclaim and you wasted the mass you did get on units that you did not really need.
It's that simple, really.

Edit:
(If you want some advice on what you should have made or done knowing this, ^ then ask and you shall receive).

More edit:
I will also note that it's possible to delay a loss even though your situation is very bad for a long time.
Especially so on such maps like daroza. This does not matter. Just concentrate on the result - win or loss.

Thank you Gorton. Yes, I defenitely agree my eco-handling could be far better. Again, I think I suffer from some kind of tunnel vision in some situations and it causes a whole load of problems.

But please, do tell. Im always looking to improve. Otherwise I'd still be only playing Custom Games.

Statistics: Posted by NodCommander — 26 Jan 2015, 18:08

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-26T12:48:19+02:00

The problem is that you did not use the huge mass advantage you had from reclaim and you wasted the mass you did get on units that you did not really need.
It's that simple, really.

Edit:
(If you want some advice on what you should have made or done knowing this, ^ then ask and you shall receive).

More edit:
I will also note that it's possible to delay a loss even though your situation is very bad for a long time.
Especially so on such maps like daroza. This does not matter. Just concentrate on the result - win or loss.

Statistics: Posted by Gorton — 26 Jan 2015, 12:48

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-26T12:03:33+02:00

NodCommander wrote:
Okay, so. First off. This thread will contain extreme stupidity. If you can't handle stupidity, please look the other way.

Now. This is an issue I ran into twice now. Its in the form of a player called "derek_bobjack" who only plays 1v1 ladder as UEF. He will (very badly) try to expand for the first few minutes, and if (when) that fails he will go back into his starting corner and turtle worse than a Gap of Rohan player. He will spam the daylight out of T3 PD and T2 static artillery and then build nothing but Novax. If the map he spawns on is a 5x5 km, he will quit out instantly. Any other map he plays the exact same tactic every single time. (Look the online replays.)

Now, I know what you all think and say. Turtling gives your enemy 95% map control, turtling always loses against MMLs and T3 Mobile Artillery. And yes, I agree, it does. I just dont seem be able to use it correctly against this kind of player. And I know, its incredibly stupid to lose against that.

The first time playing against this player after an hour of constant bore I finnaly managed to kill him by sniping his SMD and nuking his ACU. This time, well. See the attached replay file.

I feel my main problem is I have no idea how the game plays in normal team games (Or in this case, a 1v1) after the T2 stage. If someone, constructively, can give advice on how to stop this stupidity, please do so.

Worse is. Looking at his past games, you can see a large number of these are way longer than your avarage 1v1, so it seems that Im not the only one falling for his nonsense.

Heh, at least he can play UEF right, i can't even do that.

Statistics: Posted by zeroAPM — 26 Jan 2015, 12:03

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-26T12:02:53+02:00

Vee wrote:
You don't need to be everywhere to eco. You just need to zoom in on the progress bar of your currently upgrading t3 mex, then start the next one when it goes 99%.

Agreed. However, I always find it difficult to stop raiding when it happens here and there. Aircraft would solve my problem, but airplay is a weakness of mine.

Reaper Zwei wrote:
NodCommander wrote:However, one would -think- three Monkeylords and a Megalith would be more than enough to kill an opponent in a 1v1 ladder match. Hard to see into the future and easier when you got full-map view as a spectator. Again, I got almost no experience with sitations like this what so ever.

Here's a big issue right here. Don't assume. Especially if you have no experience in a certain situation.

Yeah ok as I watch the replay I can see the whole map but seeing it in game isn't all that difficult. Scout!!!!!!

It is just how it can be so hard to kill an opponent who refuses to build units in the early game which stumps me.

Easy, you let him get away with it.

That was the plan, yet somehow I dont seem to have the attention to be everywhere all the time. (Top right and bottom left bases as an example) Especially not after an hour of grinding boredom.

Ok I don't really understand this. First sentence you say you have no attention left to give, yet second sentence you say you were bored out of your mind. . . . . . . huh?

You dont say? I dont need to come on a forum to understand that. Im asking how to avoid letting someone get away with it.

I really dont see how thats hard to understand. Its in no way, shape or form contradictionary.

Statistics: Posted by NodCommander — 26 Jan 2015, 12:02

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-26T09:25:49+02:00

NodCommander wrote:
However, one would -think- three Monkeylords and a Megalith would be more than enough to kill an opponent in a 1v1 ladder match. Hard to see into the future and easier when you got full-map view as a spectator. Again, I got almost no experience with sitations like this what so ever.

Here's a big issue right here. Don't assume. Especially if you have no experience in a certain situation.

Yeah ok as I watch the replay I can see the whole map but seeing it in game isn't all that difficult. Scout!!!!!!

It is just how it can be so hard to kill an opponent who refuses to build units in the early game which stumps me.

Easy, you let him get away with it.

That was the plan, yet somehow I dont seem to have the attention to be everywhere all the time. (Top right and bottom left bases as an example) Especially not after an hour of grinding boredom.

Ok I don't really understand this. First sentence you say you have no attention left to give, yet second sentence you say you were bored out of your mind. . . . . . . huh?

Statistics: Posted by Reaper Zwei — 26 Jan 2015, 09:25

Re: I think I just lost a thousand braincells

2015-01-26T01:42:28+02:00

You don't need to be everywhere to eco. You just need to zoom in on the progress bar of your currently upgrading t3 mex, then start the next one when it goes 99%.

Statistics: Posted by Vee — 26 Jan 2015, 01:42